Jim Mac changing the bass drum parts on old songs

[Frederik]

For a long time PR and JE did their own things to Stranglers songs and it was acceptable. Look at how well attended the gigs were for a long long time.

MK2 gig attendance was inversely proportional to the amount of MK2 material in existence.

[toilerinblack]

Sir im not technical with my drumming, but I think the man on moon beat is I think a sort of Shuffle beat? If anyone else has more knowledge let me know, if you listen to what he's doing on Hi Hat it has a distinct difference from alot of other Stranglers patterns, I don't think Jet ever played this type of beat, you can't hear the bass drum but can work it out from what JJ is doing, this is my favourite song from album at the moment. Lt Kudu.

Yes Moon has always been up there for me even years ago when they first tried it out live i could tell along with Water that they were the two rough diamonds and we were right.
They've improved on it along the way that's how a good song forms slowly getting changes and adds to it name that will eventually turn a rough gem to a polished diamond, i must say Moon live on this tour has sounded amazing and i presume you thought that too at Reading where baz's vocals live has really improved for the better whatever they are doing to it it sounds bloody good anyway and very similar to the studio version,i too think this is one of the leading song's from DM and that's what i mean by there's no way this current line up is in anyway or form copying anything or anybody from the past this album tracks and beats like you say are a far cry from the past it's fresh and different and this album deserves full credit to the band for producing such a fine album.... their way with their own sound!

Yes the original live version Dave was playing the solo at the end with the same sound used on the intro, I'm just wondering how much is Dave and how much is Louie on the Studio version? It does sound like Dave but I know extra keyboards were added, the one I'm thinking of is White Stallion, Dave does the bass distorted keyboard pad throughout the song, the rest is the Fifth Beatle Louie, who also added the opera bits, I can Imagine JJ saying to Louie, what the Fuck, how are we going to play this live? But they added some backing which worked. I love that song. Lt Kudu.

Yes your right i too was saying on here before even the french tour how the hell could they play Stallion live and even though i wanted them to because it is one of this albums crackers for sure but yes with a lot of backing production they've managed to pull it off,how did it sound for you at Reading was it good? I these days will never know just how good these new DM tracks sound live what with not being there in person which you really need to be i think to make any real judgement ...oh well i have Youtube not quite the same but that's how it is for me now

[Greatkudu]

Yes Moon has always been up there for me even years ago when they first tried it out live i could tell along with Water that they were the two rough diamonds and we were right.
They've improved on it along the way that's how a good song forms slowly getting changes and adds to it name that will eventually turn a rough gem to a polished diamond, i must say Moon live on this tour has sounded amazing and i presume you thought that too at Reading where baz's vocals live has really improved for the better whatever they are doing to it it sounds bloody good anyway and very similar to the studio version,i too think this is one of the leading song's from DM and that's what i mean by there's no way this current line up is in anyway or form copying anything or anybody from the past this album tracks and beats like you say are a far cry from the past it's fresh and different and this album deserves full credit to the band for producing such a fine album.... their way with their own sound!

Yes the original live version Dave was playing the solo at the end with the same sound used on the intro, I'm just wondering how much is Dave and how much is Louie on the Studio version? It does sound like Dave but I know extra keyboards were added, the one I'm thinking of is White Stallion, Dave does the bass distorted keyboard pad throughout the song, the rest is the Fifth Beatle Louie, who also added the opera bits, I can Imagine JJ saying to Louie, what the Fuck, how are we going to play this live? But they added some backing which worked. I love that song. Lt Kudu.

Yes your right i too was saying on here before even the french tour how the hell could they play Stallion live and even though i wanted them to because it is one of this albums crackers for sure but yes with a lot of backing production they've managed to pull it off,how did it sound for you at Reading was it good? I these days will never know just how good these new DM tracks sound live what with not being there in person which you really need to be i think to make any real judgement ...oh well i have Youtube not quite the same but it is how it is for me anyway lol

Sir Stallion was one of my favourite songs of the night, JJ trying to connect with crowd, but it's a new thing for the Stranglers to do that, with him raising his arms, it was all in red lighting, JJs vocals were live, guitar, drums and Toby played Dave's bit and also the operatic parts and the rest of it, the backing is mainly on the backing vocals, JJ plays into and starts playing his bass again when baz does his verse, so really most of it is live, it went down so well and sounded fantastic as all the Dark Matters songs did, I still think it's a fantastic album, I have played it twice a day for last 3 days, fave at the moment is Last Man on Moon and Ive sussed the bass drum part, it's very easy, but sometimes a simple beat is all that's needed, I notice it speeds up later in song and Jim is hitting harder, you can't keep the boy Jim down. Lt Kudu.

[markorbit]

JJs vocals were live, guitar, drums and Toby played Dave's bit and also the operatic parts and the rest of it, the backing is mainly on the backing vocals, JJ plays into and starts playing his bass again when baz does his verse, so really most of it is live,

There's shedloads on backing track on this one. Most of what you say Toby does is also on there. Deffo that distorted bass - which starts with a solo'd filtered version that is on backing - and I'd say the opera as well plus all the sound effects and risers in the right places.

We can see what JJ, Baz and Jim are doing but the rest... I'm not so sure but I would lean towards backing track.

[Greatkudu]

JJs vocals were live, guitar, drums and Toby played Dave's bit and also the operatic parts and the rest of it, the backing is mainly on the backing vocals, JJ plays into and starts playing his bass again when baz does his verse, so really most of it is live,

There's shedloads on backing track on this one. Most of what you say Toby does is also on there. Deffo that distorted bass - which starts with a solo'd filtered version that is on backing - and I'd say the opera as well plus all the sound effects and risers in the right places.

We can see what JJ, Baz and Jim are doing but the rest... I'm not so sure but I would lean towards backing track.

Well I particularly studied what Toby was doing and he seemed to be doing the operatic bit on the keys,but I don't give a fuck about the detractors, and of course I don't mean you I still love this track and I loved it live, on the studio version JJ plays the bass through the whole song, the reason he only played the second half live on Bass was he wanted to connect with the audience and express himself with his hands,he was having a great time, and good to see, a really relevant song but needs an extra a verse to mention the Russians and there evil act, say no more. Lt Kudu.

[droopsnoot]

I these days will never know just how good these new DM tracks sound live what with not being there in person which you really need to be i think to make any real judgement ...oh well i have Youtube not quite the same but that's how it is for me now

As you know, it's really not a patch on being there, no matter how loud you turn it up. I looked at a few of the YT videos before going to the gigs on this tour, but I had to stop myself because nothing comes across all that well on there and I was a bit worried they wouldn't be great. It's not surprising, it's all phone footage taken from in a crowd, it's never going to be all that good. Look at the recent footage from France - the Arte Concert gig - and that's much better. I'm looking forward to the full gig being up next week.

[toilerinblack]

Yes the original live version Dave was playing the solo at the end with the same sound used on the intro, I'm just wondering how much is Dave and how much is Louie on the Studio version? It does sound like Dave but I know extra keyboards were added, the one I'm thinking of is White Stallion, Dave does the bass distorted keyboard pad throughout the song, the rest is the Fifth Beatle Louie, who also added the opera bits, I can Imagine JJ saying to Louie, what the Fuck, how are we going to play this live? But they added some backing which worked. I love that song. Lt Kudu.

Yes your right i too was saying on here before even the french tour how the hell could they play Stallion live and even though i wanted them to because it is one of this albums crackers for sure but yes with a lot of backing production they've managed to pull it off,how did it sound for you at Reading was it good? I these days will never know just how good these new DM tracks sound live what with not being there in person which you really need to be i think to make any real judgement ...oh well i have Youtube not quite the same but it is how it is for me anyway lol

Sir Stallion was one of my favourite songs of the night, JJ trying to connect with crowd, but it's a new thing for the Stranglers to do that, with him raising his arms, it was all in red lighting, JJs vocals were live, guitar, drums and Toby played Dave's bit and also the operatic parts and the rest of it, the backing is mainly on the backing vocals, JJ plays into and starts playing his bass again when baz does his verse, so really most of it is live, it went down so well and sounded fantastic as all the Dark Matters songs did, I still think it's a fantastic album, I have played it twice a day for last 3 days, fave at the moment is Last Man on Moon and Ive sussed the bass drum part, it's very easy, but sometimes a simple beat is all that's needed, I notice it speeds up later in song and Jim is hitting harder, you can't keep the boy Jim down. Lt Kudu.

Intresting your right about the more crowd interaction from what i can see of it from the outside looking in especially from jj with the raised arms like you say and all the lights going it's all great stuff must of been great to be apart of all that.This band still whatever peoples own opinions are of today's state of play is far from finished they seem fresh who are playing extremely tight and full or energy from somewhere they certainly are giving the fans a good show and surely at the end of the day that's what it's all about fans going away happy to the band earning their crust,i can see them going for as long as they feel they can or want to and as musicians and second to none and your biggest buzz is to play to an audience,studio recordings i believe is just a small part to their career and the only way you can ever tell what people think of your material is to play it live to them and i think there is no bigger buzz than that and with this band the proof in the pudding is at JJs age whose played for 47 years odd for this band who clearly still is enjoying the crowd more than ever, i've never seen him so relaxed and happy on stage quite remarkable a buzz that never leaves them which they will miss so much when the time does come when they hang up their dms.... and for the fans who are still happy with this current line up let's all hope it's a long time off yet.

[Greatkudu]

Yes your right i too was saying on here before even the french tour how the hell could they play Stallion live and even though i wanted them to because it is one of this albums crackers for sure but yes with a lot of backing production they've managed to pull it off,how did it sound for you at Reading was it good? I these days will never know just how good these new DM tracks sound live what with not being there in person which you really need to be i think to make any real judgement ...oh well i have Youtube not quite the same but it is how it is for me anyway lol

Sir Stallion was one of my favourite songs of the night, JJ trying to connect with crowd, but it's a new thing for the Stranglers to do that, with him raising his arms, it was all in red lighting, JJs vocals were live, guitar, drums and Toby played Dave's bit and also the operatic parts and the rest of it, the backing is mainly on the backing vocals, JJ plays into and starts playing his bass again when baz does his verse, so really most of it is live, it went down so well and sounded fantastic as all the Dark Matters songs did, I still think it's a fantastic album, I have played it twice a day for last 3 days, fave at the moment is Last Man on Moon and Ive sussed the bass drum part, it's very easy, but sometimes a simple beat is all that's needed, I notice it speeds up later in song and Jim is hitting harder, you can't keep the boy Jim down. Lt Kudu.

Intresting your right about the more crowd interaction from what i can see of it from the outside looking in especially from jj with the raised arms like you say and all the lights going it's all great stuff must of been great to be apart of all that.This band still whatever peoples own opinions are of today's state of play is far from finished they seem fresh who are playing extremely tight and full or energy from somewhere they certainly are giving the fans a good show and surely at the end of the day that's what it's all about fans going away happy to the band earning their crust,i can see them going for as long as they feel they can or want to and as musicians and second to none and your biggest buzz is to play to an audience,studio recordings i believe is just a small part to their career and the only way you can ever tell what people think of your material is to play it live to them and i think there is no bigger buzz than that and with this band the proof in the pudding is at JJs age whose played for 47 years odd for this band who clearly still is enjoying the crowd more than ever, i've never seen him so relaxed and happy on stage quite remarkable a buzz that never leaves them which they will miss so much when the time does come when they hang up their dms.... and for the fans who are still happy with this current line up let's all hope it's a long time off yet.

Yes as JJ said, he can be himself these days, it was great fun his putting his arms up, and he says more to the audience now, and he looks amazing at 70,a great example of what Karate does for you, I train ad hoc in Kung Fu and kick boxing but I'm no Sensei. Lt Kudu. Think of me as more Karate kid.

[theraven1979]

I thought JJ's back was fucked?

As for crowd interaction - no thanks. I almost walked out of a gig once when the lead singer started doing that "hey c'mon everyone clap your hands" bullshit.

But yeah each to their own. The Stranglers live shows now are all about entertainment and tribute to a time (and band) gone by.


Jim

[toilerinblack]

Sir Stallion was one of my favourite songs of the night, JJ trying to connect with crowd, but it's a new thing for the Stranglers to do that, with him raising his arms, it was all in red lighting, JJs vocals were live, guitar, drums and Toby played Dave's bit and also the operatic parts and the rest of it, the backing is mainly on the backing vocals, JJ plays into and starts playing his bass again when baz does his verse, so really most of it is live, it went down so well and sounded fantastic as all the Dark Matters songs did, I still think it's a fantastic album, I have played it twice a day for last 3 days, fave at the moment is Last Man on Moon and Ive sussed the bass drum part, it's very easy, but sometimes a simple beat is all that's needed, I notice it speeds up later in song and Jim is hitting harder, you can't keep the boy Jim down. Lt Kudu.

Intresting your right about the more crowd interaction from what i can see of it from the outside looking in especially from jj with the raised arms like you say and all the lights going it's all great stuff must of been great to be apart of all that.This band still whatever peoples own opinions are of today's state of play is far from finished they seem fresh who are playing extremely tight and full or energy from somewhere they certainly are giving the fans a good show and surely at the end of the day that's what it's all about fans going away happy to the band earning their crust,i can see them going for as long as they feel they can or want to and as musicians and second to none and your biggest buzz is to play to an audience,studio recordings i believe is just a small part to their career and the only way you can ever tell what people think of your material is to play it live to them and i think there is no bigger buzz than that and with this band the proof in the pudding is at JJs age whose played for 47 years odd for this band who clearly still is enjoying the crowd more than ever, i've never seen him so relaxed and happy on stage quite remarkable a buzz that never leaves them which they will miss so much when the time does come when they hang up their dms.... and for the fans who are still happy with this current line up let's all hope it's a long time off yet.

Yes as JJ said, he can be himself these days, it was great fun his putting his arms up, and he says more to the audience now, and he looks amazing at 70,a great example of what Karate does for you, I train ad hoc in Kung Fu and kick boxing but I'm no Sensei. Lt Kudu. Think of me as more Karate kid.

Lol Karate kid...Wax On Wax Off!

[toilerinblack]

Actually talking about the Moon track i might work out the guitar parts out soon fancy playing that in fact i haven't worked out any of DMs guitar parts yet i mainly play MK1 stuff with a bit of other mk material like time to die,Here, the list is endless but i play relentless a hell of a lot on my acoustic as i don't play the electric nowday's not being in bands anymore it's all just quick goes on the acoustic if and when.

[Greatkudu]

Actually talking about the Moon track i might work out the guitar parts out soon fancy playing that in fact i haven't worked out any of DMs guitar parts yet i mainly play MK1 stuff with a bit of other mk material like time to die,Here, the list is endless but i play relentless a hell of a lot on my acoustic as i don't play the electric nowday's not being in bands anymore it's all just quick goes on the acoustic if and when.

Sir to me it's Mr Warnes best guitar work since he joined, it was a bit to dominant on Giants for me, but on DMs it's very subtle, the riff or hook? At the start of Breathe is sonic heaven IMHO, I love this track,but what's all this Jasmine in her hair malarkey? Lt Kudu.