Jim Mac changing the bass drum parts on old songs

[StanInBlack]

Y'see, it's acceptable to JJ Burnel & Friends fans when Jim makes embellishments but it was never acceptable when PR or JE did it. I'll let you all chew on that thought for a while.

[Greatkudu]

Y'see, it's acceptable to JJ Burnel & Friends fans when Jim makes embellishments but it was never acceptable when PR or JE did it. I'll let you all chew on that thought for a while.

Stan no one is saying it's acceptable, it's just that I and others have noticed, as Jim has to lock in with JJ, JJ must be OK with the changes, I'm sure he would tell Jim of he wasn't happy, I was just wondering if JJ had to change the way he plays to fit in with the changes. Personally I pefer the bass drum bits they way they were. Lt Kudu.

[markorbit]

Comparing the two again it's maybe more obvious in the verses. Jet's beat is (to me) is like what he plays on The Raven.

[toilerinblack]

Just compared Toiler from Ally Pally to a 2022 show. Are you referring to JIm's 1+2 hits to Jet's 2+2 hits ie: Jim goes boom, splat, boom boom splat. Jet goes boom boom splat, boom boom splat?

Quite a big change really. JJ wouldn't need to change anything but I am surprised at the change. The older groove is best to me.

Just listened to the two that you have said and yes like you say there is a big difference between the two starts from the two drummers, i do too prefer Jet's it went so well to JJ's bass intro,the ally fog toiler will always a special toiler for me as i was there near Hugh watching him sing it a strangler so that version will always be special to me i play it a lot, but yes i agree too i prefer Jet's pattern that is think is a perfect match to JJ's bass,but hey Jim's is still bloody good.

Sir I have to say the way Jet played it is harder, its quite tricky to keep that precision going the way Jet played it, Jim also simplifies the bass drum bit on the run down to the end of Heroes, if you listen to the version on all live and night you will hear what I mean, again it's fucking hard to keep the precision, But Jim is still a great drummer IMHO, but fuck he hits hard and has arms like tree trunks. Lt Kudu.

Yep gotcha.

[toilerinblack]

I'm no drummer but he does sound different to Jet. Thought that ever since he joined. To my untrained ears he sounds more like yer standard rock drummer (a very good one) whereas Jet was a multitude of different styles.


Jim

Yep for a non drummer too i'd agree with what your saying Jim too.

[Palais81]

Just compared Toiler from Ally Pally to a 2022 show. Are you referring to JIm's 1+2 hits to Jet's 2+2 hits ie: Jim goes boom, splat, boom boom splat. Jet goes boom boom splat, boom boom splat?

Quite a big change really. JJ wouldn't need to change anything but I am surprised at the change. The older groove is best to me.

Just listened to the two that you have said and yes like you say there is a big difference between the two starts from the two drummers, i do too prefer Jet's it went so well to JJ's bass intro,the ally fog toiler will always a special toiler for me as i was there near Hugh watching him sing it a strangler so that version will always be special to me i play it a lot, but yes i agree too i prefer Jet's pattern that is think is a perfect match to JJ's bass,but hey Jim's is still bloody good.

Sir I have to say the way Jet played it is harder, its quite tricky to keep that precision going the way Jet played it, Jim also simplifies the bass drum bit on the run down to the end of Heroes, if you listen to the version on all live and night you will hear what I mean, again it's fucking hard to keep the precision, But Jim is still a great drummer IMHO, but fuck he hits hard and has arms like tree trunks. Lt Kudu.

At the Stoke gig, the sound engineer markedly reduced Jim's volume compared to other times I have seen him. This made it sound like the early albums mix - very welcome in my book. At other gigs on this current tour did anyone else notice the lower from volume?

[BankMan]

Just listened to the two that you have said and yes like you say there is a big difference between the two starts from the two drummers, i do too prefer Jet's it went so well to JJ's bass intro,the ally fog toiler will always a special toiler for me as i was there near Hugh watching him sing it a strangler so that version will always be special to me i play it a lot, but yes i agree too i prefer Jet's pattern that is think is a perfect match to JJ's bass,but hey Jim's is still bloody good.

Sir I have to say the way Jet played it is harder, its quite tricky to keep that precision going the way Jet played it, Jim also simplifies the bass drum bit on the run down to the end of Heroes, if you listen to the version on all live and night you will hear what I mean, again it's fucking hard to keep the precision, But Jim is still a great drummer IMHO, but fuck he hits hard and has arms like tree trunks. Lt Kudu.

At the Stoke gig, the sound engineer markedly reduced Jim's volume compared to other times I have seen him. This made it sound like the early albums mix - very welcome in my book. At other gigs on this current tour did anyone else notice the lower from volume?

Yeah, noticeably at Cambridge the drums were lowered in the mix as the gig went on. Conversely (and rightly in my book), the keyboards were pushed up. Interestingly Baz’s guitar didn’t come through very strongly at all. Could have just been my hearing of course

Overall a much better sound at Cambridge. Brixton I felt was a bit crash bang wallop

[Jon the Impaler]

This sounds a bit anorach territory, but I can't help noticing that Jim Mac has changed the bass drum parts on some of the older songs ie Heroes,Change and Toiler, I just wonder if JJ has had to adapt his playing? It's not a criticism but just an observation, only a drummer would notice possibly? I wonder if anyone else has noticed? Lt Kudu.

You're right .I am not a drummer and hadn't noticed.I was a bass player......probably not a very good one !

[Greatkudu]

Just listened to the two that you have said and yes like you say there is a big difference between the two starts from the two drummers, i do too prefer Jet's it went so well to JJ's bass intro,the ally fog toiler will always a special toiler for me as i was there near Hugh watching him sing it a strangler so that version will always be special to me i play it a lot, but yes i agree too i prefer Jet's pattern that is think is a perfect match to JJ's bass,but hey Jim's is still bloody good.

Sir I have to say the way Jet played it is harder, its quite tricky to keep that precision going the way Jet played it, Jim also simplifies the bass drum bit on the run down to the end of Heroes, if you listen to the version on all live and night you will hear what I mean, again it's fucking hard to keep the precision, But Jim is still a great drummer IMHO, but fuck he hits hard and has arms like tree trunks. Lt Kudu.

At the Stoke gig, the sound engineer markedly reduced Jim's volume compared to other times I have seen him. This made it sound like the early albums mix - very welcome in my book. At other gigs on this current tour did anyone else notice the lower from volume?

Well Jim hits em hard old boy, and he uses tub thumper sticks, but I noticed on GB and SLG he was using a more delicate touch, maybe Mr Black has been talking to him? Joking of course, Jet had an amazing light touch for a big man, Jet used much lighter sticks of course and a much lighter style, but Jet could hit hard to, if you watch the live in Madrid recording in 1987? Jet is hitting the snare really hard on Sleazy, the difference is Jet used more wrist power while Jim is raising his arm to his head on some songs, beating the shit out of his Ludwig kit, if you see Jim's arms they are like a Grizzly Bear in size, a very powerful chap, but of course Jet came from a different background, Jim himself would admit he hits the drums very hard, but maybe JJ asked for PA chap to turn Jim down a bit? But also the sound varies at different venues, the sound at Reading is always very good and Jim was rather loud. Lt Kudu.

[toilerinblack]

Sir I have to say the way Jet played it is harder, its quite tricky to keep that precision going the way Jet played it, Jim also simplifies the bass drum bit on the run down to the end of Heroes, if you listen to the version on all live and night you will hear what I mean, again it's fucking hard to keep the precision, But Jim is still a great drummer IMHO, but fuck he hits hard and has arms like tree trunks. Lt Kudu.

At the Stoke gig, the sound engineer markedly reduced Jim's volume compared to other times I have seen him. This made it sound like the early albums mix - very welcome in my book. At other gigs on this current tour did anyone else notice the lower from volume?

Well Jim hits em hard old boy, and he uses tub thumper sticks, but I noticed on GB and SLG he was using a more delicate touch, maybe Mr Black has been talking to him? Joking of course, Jet had an amazing light touch for a big man, Jet used much lighter sticks of course and a much lighter style, but Jet could hit hard to, if you watch the live in Madrid recording in 1987? Jet is hitting the snare really hard on Sleazy, the difference is Jet used more wrist power while Jim is raising his arm to his head on some songs, beating the shit out of his Ludwig kit, if you see Jim's arms they are like a Grizzly Bear in size, a very powerful chap, but of course Jet came from a different background, Jim himself would admit he hits the drums very hard, but maybe JJ asked for PA chap to turn Jim down a bit? But also the sound varies at different venues, the sound at Reading is always very good and Jim was rather loud. Lt Kudu.

Lots of good theories maybe it was turned down at the mix and yes Jim hits hard who has said openly said that subtleties not his thing,hey i ain't gonna start to knock him over sound because i love what he does whose been the right man in the Stranglers for a decade,but i can notice the difference it being more lighter for sure and i do love a deep thumping bass drum myself.I think that Toby's keys have been turned up and sounding very clear and why not it sounds bloody great to me,but thanks to our drummers on here giving us their opinions and theories and i find it all a very intresting read...great stuff.

[Greatkudu]

At the Stoke gig, the sound engineer markedly reduced Jim's volume compared to other times I have seen him. This made it sound like the early albums mix - very welcome in my book. At other gigs on this current tour did anyone else notice the lower from volume?

Well Jim hits em hard old boy, and he uses tub thumper sticks, but I noticed on GB and SLG he was using a more delicate touch, maybe Mr Black has been talking to him? Joking of course, Jet had an amazing light touch for a big man, Jet used much lighter sticks of course and a much lighter style, but Jet could hit hard to, if you watch the live in Madrid recording in 1987? Jet is hitting the snare really hard on Sleazy, the difference is Jet used more wrist power while Jim is raising his arm to his head on some songs, beating the shit out of his Ludwig kit, if you see Jim's arms they are like a Grizzly Bear in size, a very powerful chap, but of course Jet came from a different background, Jim himself would admit he hits the drums very hard, but maybe JJ asked for PA chap to turn Jim down a bit? But also the sound varies at different venues, the sound at Reading is always very good and Jim was rather loud. Lt Kudu.

Lots of good theories maybe it was turned down at the mix that was out of his hands but i can't imagine him not knowing lol yes Jim hits hard who has said openly that subtleties not his thing,hey i ain't gonna start to knock him over sound because i love what he does whose been the right man in the Stranglers for a decade,but i can notice the difference it being more lighter for sure and i do love a deep thumping bass drum myself.I think that Toby's keys have been turned up and sounding very clear and why not it sounds bloody great to me.

Yes agreed sir, I personally love a good solid bass drum sound, tight but punchy as opposed to boomy, I have that sound myself, ps I love your latest poem in the Hugh section. Lt Kudu.

[toilerinblack]

Well Jim hits em hard old boy, and he uses tub thumper sticks, but I noticed on GB and SLG he was using a more delicate touch, maybe Mr Black has been talking to him? Joking of course, Jet had an amazing light touch for a big man, Jet used much lighter sticks of course and a much lighter style, but Jet could hit hard to, if you watch the live in Madrid recording in 1987? Jet is hitting the snare really hard on Sleazy, the difference is Jet used more wrist power while Jim is raising his arm to his head on some songs, beating the shit out of his Ludwig kit, if you see Jim's arms they are like a Grizzly Bear in size, a very powerful chap, but of course Jet came from a different background, Jim himself would admit he hits the drums very hard, but maybe JJ asked for PA chap to turn Jim down a bit? But also the sound varies at different venues, the sound at Reading is always very good and Jim was rather loud. Lt Kudu.

Lots of good theories maybe it was turned down at the mix that was out of his hands but i can't imagine him not knowing lol yes Jim hits hard who has said openly that subtleties not his thing,hey i ain't gonna start to knock him over sound because i love what he does whose been the right man in the Stranglers for a decade,but i can notice the difference it being more lighter for sure and i do love a deep thumping bass drum myself.I think that Toby's keys have been turned up and sounding very clear and why not it sounds bloody great to me.

Yes agreed sir, I personally love a good solid bass drum sound, tight but punchy as opposed to boomy, I have that sound myself, ps I love your latest poem in the Hugh section. Lt Kudu.

Thanks i always enjoy your drumming opinions as usual.