Reading the review the final full UK Tour?

JJ Burnel, ...., Baz Warne, Jim Macaulay.

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Re: Reading the review the final full UK Tour?

Post by StanInBlack »

alaninblack wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 23:08 He can play the guitar parts from the MKI tracks live with ease, somewhat better than Hugh
I disagree. I don't think Baz is inherently anywhere near as interesting a guitarist as Hugh was/is and I don't see how he can play Hugh's guitar parts "better" than the guy that wrote them. People can bang on about Baz playing the "Golden Brown" solo perfectly all they like: One, Baz didn't write it, and two, Baz can try all he likes to play all of the notes as perfectly as he possibly can, but he'll never be able to truly replicate those parts as they should sound because he's not actually Hugh.
alaninblack wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 23:08 What he does not do, is to try and play in the style of Hugh on new material - if he did, then yes, that would be an impersonation.
Great. I'll point you in the direction of the guitar playing on "Summat Outtanowt" which is a direct impersonation of the way Hugh composed his guitar parts during the Raven/MiB era. It's evident that THAT is not a style of playing that comes naturally to Baz and he's thinking "ooh, what would Hugh have done on this?"
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Re: Reading the review the final full UK Tour?

Post by alaninblack »

StanInBlack wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 23:22
alaninblack wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 23:08 He can play the guitar parts from the MKI tracks live with ease, somewhat better than Hugh
I disagree. I don't think Baz is inherently anywhere near as interesting a guitarist as Hugh was/is and I don't see how he can play Hugh's guitar parts "better" than the guy that wrote them. People can bang on about Baz playing the "Golden Brown" solo perfectly all they like: One, Baz didn't write it, and two, Baz can try all he likes to play all of the notes as perfectly as he possibly can, but he'll never be able to truly replicate those parts as they should sound because he's not actually Hugh.
alaninblack wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 23:08 What he does not do, is to try and play in the style of Hugh on new material - if he did, then yes, that would be an impersonation.
Great. I'll point you in the direction of the guitar playing on "Summat Outtanowt" which is a direct impersonation of the way Hugh composed his guitar parts during the Raven/MiB era. It's evident that THAT is not a style of playing that comes naturally to Baz and he's thinking "ooh, what would Hugh have done on this?"
I'm not saying that Baz in more interesting than Hugh in his playing style, far from it, Ill take Hugh over Baz anytime. When I've seen Hugh and also Baz live (never JE) playing as part of "The Stranglers", Hugh definitely played more bum notes live, not that I cared at the time when watching and I'm not the only person who has noted that over the years.

Ill have to go and listen to "Summat Outtanowt" - but in "general" Baz does not play trying to impersonate Hugh's style on new material. He is very different to Hugh, not more interesting though. You can always pick individual part of tracks but PPL in general refer to Baz as a "bluesy" guitarist, and Hugh in general as a more edgy and undefinable guitarist, and I think in general that is true.
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Re: Reading the review the final full UK Tour?

Post by toilerinblack »

I think that Baz as a guitarist is technically better than Hugh and so was JE too BUT that dosen't make them a better in what right lead parts are played for the songs there's a big difference for sure because i enjoy Hugh's style of play with his perfect lead guitar parts like no other for me anyway than any stranglers guitarist for sure on both vocals & guitar nobody comes close but the other two are naturally better technically... but hey who cares i enjoy both players BW & HC so i'm happy at the end of the day.
Last edited by toilerinblack on 27 Feb 2022, 00:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reading the review the final full UK Tour?

Post by markorbit »

toilerinblack wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 23:09 another example is LMOTM off DM i listened to his vocals on this tour and once again he's really improved the live version as good as the studio version live.
There's some serious jiggory-pokery going on on this tour. All the way through the live clip of LMOTM there's a harmoniser on Baz's vocals (or it's another backing track). Obviously the vocoder becomes a feature at the end. Nothing wrong with that of course but now that they have technically managed to integrate backing tracks seamlessly I start to wonder what is live, especially when things become 'as good as the studio version' which LMOTM manages. Maybe it's sung live with a shedload of processing including autotune, harmoniser etc. All seems too perfect to me.

I don't really care too much either way. My band does the same thing. But we're not The Stranglers.

Oh and I'd vote Hugh any day as a guitarist. Plays with a lot of character.
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Re: Reading the review the final full UK Tour?

Post by alaninblack »

StanInBlack wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 23:22 Great. I'll point you in the direction of the guitar playing on "Summat Outtanowt" which is a direct impersonation of the way Hugh composed his guitar parts during the Raven/MiB era. It's evident that THAT is not a style of playing that comes naturally to Baz and he's thinking "ooh, what would Hugh have done on this?"
Just has to go revisit S16. In the case of "Summat Outtanowt" - the opening riff could be something that Hugh would have come up with, but there would be vastly more variation throughout the track especially during the Raven / MIB era. During the middle bass solo, Hugh would be playing an almost complete opposite riff to JJ, Baz just seems to chime in with a few chords.

Was Baz trying to impersonate Hugh ? not in my opinion. Probably more likely Louise trying to get that MKI sound out of them, which in my opinion was overdone on that album. I could be totally wrong, I was not personally there in the studio, but that is how I view it.
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Re: Reading the review the final full UK Tour?

Post by toilerinblack »

markorbit wrote: 27 Feb 2022, 00:41
toilerinblack wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 23:09 another example is LMOTM off DM i listened to his vocals on this tour and once again he's really improved the live version as good as the studio version live.
There's some serious jiggory-pokery going on on this tour. All the way through the live clip of LMOTM there's a harmoniser on Baz's vocals (or it's another backing track). Obviously the vocoder becomes a feature at the end. Nothing wrong with that of course but now that they have technically managed to integrate backing tracks seamlessly I start to wonder what is live, especially when things become 'as good as the studio version' which LMOTM manages. Maybe it's sung live with a shedload of processing including autotune, harmoniser etc. All seems too perfect to me.

I don't really care too much either way. My band does the same thing. But we're not The Stranglers.

Oh and I'd vote Hugh any day as a guitarist. Plays with a lot of character.
yes intresting you say that and i'm not sure either what effects through the mixer is or is not being done to Baz's vocals but it sure sounds so much better like moon's studio version is for example which i've enjoyed very much anyway,but it does make me wonder what is or not being done or added live all i know is there is a big improvement to their overall sound and especially baz's vocal which is great to hear and that for me is the main thing at the end of the day... but i'm only going by my ears on the vids though which is a big difference than the old days of me being there and i haven't been to any of this tours gigs so it's hard to tell, but those who have gone have given great sound reviews overall and they are the ones there on the ground so to speak which i have enjoyed reading their gig review posts a lot .
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Re: Reading the review the final full UK Tour?

Post by Yanders »

There's some serious jiggory-pokery going on on this tour.
Would explain why people here are saying both baz and jj vocals are the best they have ever been. Its not usual for vocals to improve at their ages.

As long as it's not overdone and makes a good show, I don't think it matters. I bet lots of bands do it.
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Re: Reading the review the final full UK Tour?

Post by Greatkudu »

Yanders wrote: 27 Feb 2022, 03:25
There's some serious jiggory-pokery going on on this tour.
Would explain why people here are saying both baz and jj vocals are the best they have ever been. Its not usual for vocals to improve at their ages.

As long as it's not overdone and makes a good show, I don't think it matters. I bet lots of bands do it.
If you listen to the DMs acoustic Tracks both JJ and Baz sound good, LMOTM does have a vocoder distortion sound like the album, but he was definitely singing that live, but I also think there is some backing in the vocal, It will have to have someone more technical than me to explain that, my thing is the drums. But JJs voice has matured and Baz is vocally better, it's just he's more confident with his vocals, more relaxed. Lt Kudu.
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Re: Reading the review the final full UK Tour?

Post by theraven1979 »

I think it sums up the entire theme of the band recently. So what if they're using a lot of backing tracks, so what if theres only 1 original member in the band. So what if 75% of the setlist is Hugh MK1 songs. It was clear at the start that this tour was always gonna be a greatest hits/tribute tour. I think it's fair to say the majority of people that attended the tour have enjoyed it and fair play. As The Jam would say "That's Entertainment".

Me? I'm happy saving my hard earned and retaining the last memories of the band with Dave.

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Re: Reading the review the final full UK Tour?

Post by Greatkudu »

theraven1979 wrote: 27 Feb 2022, 11:01 I think it sums up the entire theme of the band recently. So what if they're using a lot of backing tracks, so what if theres only 1 original member in the band. So what if 75% of the setlist is Hugh MK1 songs. It was clear at the start that this tour was always gonna be a greatest hits/tribute tour. I think it's fair to say the majority of people that attended the tour have enjoyed it and fair play. As The Jam would say "That's Entertainment".

Me? I'm happy saving my hard earned and retaining the last memories of the band with Dave.

Jim

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Jim as a matter of interest, when was the last time you saw the band with Dave? Lt Kudu.
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Re: Reading the review the final full UK Tour?

Post by theraven1979 »

Greatkudu wrote:
theraven1979 wrote: 27 Feb 2022, 11:01 I think it sums up the entire theme of the band recently. So what if they're using a lot of backing tracks, so what if theres only 1 original member in the band. So what if 75% of the setlist is Hugh MK1 songs. It was clear at the start that this tour was always gonna be a greatest hits/tribute tour. I think it's fair to say the majority of people that attended the tour have enjoyed it and fair play. As The Jam would say "That's Entertainment".

Me? I'm happy saving my hard earned and retaining the last memories of the band with Dave.

Jim

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Jim as a matter of interest, when was the last time you saw the band with Dave? Lt Kudu.
Would have to check the date but a couple of tours back I guess

Jim

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Re: Reading the review the final full UK Tour?

Post by Skindeep81 »

The last time I saw the band with Dave I thought the keyboards were so over baring (not his fault at all may I add) is the improved sound down to a new front of house sound guy does anyone know? I noticed a few of the crew setting up the equipment didn't look familiar.
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