Birmingham

JJ Burnel, ...., Baz Warne, Jim Macaulay.

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toilerinblack
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Re: Birmingham

Post by toilerinblack »

Greatkudu wrote: 20 Feb 2022, 19:14
toilerinblack wrote: 20 Feb 2022, 18:53
StanInBlack wrote: 20 Feb 2022, 01:19

Hmm. I would definitely question it, not only on the basis that the Stranglers of 40 years ago were The Stranglers (and therefore this current line-up isn't and could never be) but also I don't see what the size and the level of enthusiasm of the crowd (which is going to be mostly comprised of dyed-in-the-wool hardcore fans who are evidently willing to continue to invest in the brand no matter what and people that they've dragged along) watching has to do with the collection of individuals onstage and their decision to call themselves The Stranglers.

I'm glad you enjoyed the gig, though!
This is isn't the same band of 40 years ago that's the obvious to everybody and fan out there too like you say but it's still The stranglers band different in members yes and looks yes but that stranglers distinctive sound that they have worked so hard to be the same is and has not changed when they want it to that is,so for me anyway the energy is the same,the sound is the same to an ever on going never broken up band.
So i like you have said am glad that the fans are enjoying themselves because whatever any of us think or say about this band the all important point is fans are enjoying the band live again for their money's worth and also with the new material too and if this band brings enjoyment to people out there in a world that's seen so much doom and gloom with for a long time not being allowed to go out and about i say well done to them for cheering people up and getting people out again on a good night out ...enjoying themselves again and enjoying their music too.
Totally agree Sir, if people still enjoy the gigs and the band seem to be relishing playing live again, they are showing a more emotional side with the sad loss of Dave, I've noticed JJ can hardly hold it together when he talks about Dave, like he said he can be himself these days and doesn't have to hide behind the hard man veneer, of course those were different times, but I'm really excited about Reading, the back was really bad earlier, but I will make a decision whether I can go tomorrow, I made need a zimmer frame though. Lt Kudu. :smt005
I really hope you can make it fingers crossed if not i'm sure you will get another chance to see them at some point if they do some more smaller UK dates in the future but fingers crossed for you though.Like you say JJ has got through IYSSD which is even harder to do sitting on a stool infront of their fans just the two of them with the lights focused on the two of them which is not an easy thing to do at all with also all the times he has to sing the words Dave, so credit to him and Baz for getting through this point at each gig,i also thought the fans response has been really good too in this song by clapping in the keyboard solo part with the spotlights on Dave's keyboards,a very touching and fitting gesture by all to the Hammond Hero.
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Re: Birmingham

Post by Bogenbroom »

I don’t really want to get into this too much as, in the end, I had a good night out and enjoyed the gig.

Either the Stranglers can only be defined as Black/ Burnell/ Cornwell/ Greenfield, in which case it all ended in 1990 and the last 32 years have been various degrees of tribute act (there’s an argument for this, and I don’t 100% disagree with it), or the Stranglers is a linear progression from 1974 to today based on who’s in at the time.

The band has been in continuous existence since 1974. It’s never broken up or gone on hiatus. JJ has been there all the way through, there is a line of continuity. I admit I wouldn’t be interested if JJ retired and the other three carried on with a new bassist. I recognise that isn’t really consistent with my argument, but that’s where emotion comes in, and everyone’s got their own point at which logic breaks down and it’s just whether you like it or not.

I never doubted I was seeing the Stranglers when I went to my first gig in 1992. I think this is still the Stranglers.

The other argument I think has some weight is that they’re producing new material. Whether or not you think it has any artistic merit, they’re a creative unit (albeit not a very productive one).

I would dearly love the Stranglers as they were in 1981 to exist today. They don’t, they can’t, and the current version is only linked to them by one person and by its history. But it is linked, and it’s still actively creative, and last night I felt like I was at a Stranglers gig.
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Re: Birmingham

Post by toilerinblack »

Inresting post....My best times seeing them for sure was 81/82 without question at Hammersmith but time moves on and stops for nobody i treasure those days with it's gigs but this band is an on going entity with whatever are fans favourite times,stages,members along their journey which is fine each to their own if anyone has had enough then jump off at the next stop.Today's band and current line up i feel is still the stranglers which even now are still getting new fans joining them live which is great,it's everybody's own opinion of what they think about the band and it's current line up,they continue on with the many who do still want to go along and see them and buy their music still and that's it at then end of the day,it's an individual preference and choice to what each person likes and dislikes to the brand name band is how i as only one fan sees it.
Last edited by toilerinblack on 20 Feb 2022, 22:05, edited 1 time in total.
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StanInBlack
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Re: Birmingham

Post by StanInBlack »

Bogenbroom wrote: 20 Feb 2022, 19:50 Either the Stranglers can only be defined as Black/ Burnell/ Cornwell/ Greenfield, in which case it all ended in 1990 and the last 32 years have been various degrees of tribute act (there’s an argument for this, and I don’t 100% disagree with it), or the Stranglers is a linear progression from 1974 to today based on who’s in at the time.
For me, the Black/Burnel/Cornwell/Greenfield line-up is The Stranglers. It was the combined talents of those particular four people that created the Stranglers' sound, and it was that particular line-up that recorded and released all of the most notable tracks and albums to have been released under the Stranglers' name. That line-up left behind an incredible body of work that still attracts the ears of new listeners and is the reason why 99.99% of people (myself included) got into The Stranglers in the first place.

The Black/Burnel/Ellis/Greenfield/Roberts line-up was a completely different entity entirely, with the newbies mostly being the driving force creatively and the original members taking a relative back seat. Perhaps they shouldn't have been called The Stranglers, but it still made sense for them to call themselves that due to them having three originals in the band. This line-up at least tried - but ultimately failed - to distance itself career-wise from MKI.

If there's any line-up that could have truly moved forward and started a new chapter of The Stranglers that relied more on new material than their past work, it was MKIII. They had three original members still left in the band and a singer that could not only sing but didn't want to partake in any Hugh Cornwell cosplay. Unfortunately, it wasn't meant to be (due to PR leaving) and this line-up therefore were unable to break away from the weight of MKI and carve a career on their own terms.

Fast forward to now and the state of play is this: JJ Burnel is still there, but you have a former Toy Dolls bassist pretending to be Hugh Cornwell, a former Rialto and Mungo Jerry on keyboards (who suddenly has swapped his hat for a leather jacket, which as we all know makes for a "true" Strangler :roll: ) and a drummer from some Z-list indie also-rans whose hard-hitting, lumpen style is completely at odds with the music he's playing. For a band with an identity and a chemistry that delicately hinged on the fact that it was THOSE particular four people playing (Black/Burnel/Cornwell/Greenfield), for me this isn't The Stranglers and could never be. They may be able to play all of the correct notes in the right order, but so can Straighten Out or any number of tribute bands that care to learn the material they're playing.

And yes, I get that we've reached a point where it's absolutely impossible for The Stranglers to play together again, and that this current line-up of JJ and his mates scratches an itch for those that still want to see a professional band playing those songs live (as well as being a key revenue stream for the band onstage) but calling it The Stranglers is an incredible stretch, and clearly for some it's taking a fair amount of mental gymnastics to justify it being called The Stranglers.
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Re: Birmingham

Post by toilerinblack »

Well i started off agreeing with you post of MK1 and MK11 and yes if there was ever a time i felt it wasn't the Stranglers like you say it was for me when Hugh left in '90 and they became MK11 i agree and it really was to much of a shock and change in style, members and well just about everything for me at that point in time,but that's just one persons view of the on going band at that point in time,the many still really enjoyed the new look with paul.
But however i felt about that at that point in time which was now a long time ago it was still the Stranglers and many really enjoyed what they were doing with many not and i fell in the last category but that was just me and however i felt about it all but it was still the Stranglers in whatever format you want to look at it like or dislike.
For me this current line up or should i say when Dave was there at that point in time was the best MK post '90 ..... But again each to their own as usual and everybody will enjoy different times, but the good thing looking at this bands extra long career is that everybody likes something different about their 47 odd years as the Stranglers which is what i think makes this band the special band they have been and are still today and i say long may it continue to for those who want it to along with however long JJ & Co want to still keep on doing it all too which as a musician i can understand the wanting to is still there and so strong still at their craft they love doing so much which i think to a certain point never stops or ever leaves one.
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Re: Birmingham

Post by Skindeep81 »

StanInBlack wrote: 20 Feb 2022, 22:05
Bogenbroom wrote: 20 Feb 2022, 19:50 Either the Stranglers can only be defined as Black/ Burnell/ Cornwell/ Greenfield, in which case it all ended in 1990 and the last 32 years have been various degrees of tribute act (there’s an argument for this, and I don’t 100% disagree with it), or the Stranglers is a linear progression from 1974 to today based on who’s in at the time.



you have a former Toy Dolls bassist pretending to be Hugh Cornwell, a former Rialto and Mungo Jerry on keyboards (who suddenly has swapped his hat for a leather jacket, which as we all know makes for a "true" Strangler :roll: ) and a drummer from some Z-list indie also-rans whose hard-hitting, lumpen style is completely at odds with the music he's playing. gymnastics to justify it being called The Stranglers.
Beyond lazy this...

RE. Baz, do your home work, there is so much more to Baz than the Toy Dolls...I won't even bother going into it.

RE. Toby, hes been asked to join a band he absolutely loves, under unbelievable circumstances...same could be said of Baz though obviously different circumstances.

RE. Jim, I mean, hes an incredible drummer. No questions.

I just don't get the bashing at all. It is what it is, like it or lump it, but to be so obviously arsey about it is lazy and boring

Demand is there for The Stranglers, who ever that may be, for me, itll end when JJ decides to call it a day.
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Re: Birmingham

Post by theraven1979 »

"I won't even bother going into it" is lazy


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Re: Birmingham

Post by aldinblack »

Whether you like Baz or not I don't get the "pretending to be Hugh Cornwell" sentiment at all.

Yes he's singing original Hugh /Stranglers songs and playing Hugh's guitar parts, well somebody has to cause Hugh left right?
But he obviously sings differently, plays the guitar differently, and presents completely different to Hugh.
I just don't see how he's trying to copy Hugh in any way.

He's also written a fair amount of his own songs along with JJ, Dave, and even Jim, and some of those are getting played. How is he copying Hugh on those?
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Re: Birmingham

Post by StanInBlack »

aldinblack wrote: 20 Feb 2022, 23:48 Whether you like Baz or not I don't get the "pretending to be Hugh Cornwell" sentiment at all.
Since PR left and Baz took over the lead vocalist slot, that is pretty much what he has been trying to do to the best of his ability. He's playing a role and he's actually 'fessed up to this fact. No, he can't sing or play exactly like Hugh, but I'm sure if that were possible (which it isn't) then he would have done. Which of course tallies in nicely with what I was saying earlier: JJ will always be able to play like JJ because he is JJ. Baz could never play or sing like Hugh (no matter how hard he tries), Toby could never truly play like Dave (even if he plays Dave's parts perfectly) and Jim is definitely no Jet - therefore the end result doesn't truly (and/or accurately) sound like The Stranglers.
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Re: Birmingham

Post by StanInBlack »

theraven1979 wrote: 20 Feb 2022, 23:26 "I won't even bother going into it" is lazy
Indeed. As is saying "Jim is an incredible drummer. No questions." without elaborating on why.

In any case...
Skindeep81 wrote: 20 Feb 2022, 23:24 RE. Baz, do your home work, there is so much more to Baz than the Toy Dolls
...the fact that Baz went onto projects like Smalltown Heroes (who really didn't go anywhere) or Sundevils (a covers band) is irrelevant. Putting aside the fact that neither band were as high profile as his stint in Toy Dolls (and I use the term "high profile" loosely there), none of this is relevant to my point.
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Re: Birmingham

Post by Skindeep81 »

Is he not an incredible drummer?
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Re: Birmingham

Post by theraven1979 »

Skindeep81 wrote:Is he not an incredible drummer?
Subjective


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