This current Stranglers is still The Stranglers.

[Bear Cage]

Some musings on why the current line-up is The Stranglers (and not “JJ and Friends” or similar).
If the band had broken up and then one of the ex-Stranglers had, a few years later, formed a band with no other former band-mates then I would disagree that they are the Stranglers.
However this is not the case for The Stranglers, that have never ceased, they have continuously toured and released albums as The Stranglers, and the current line-up has ‘paid their dues in time served’ to earn their right to be The Stranglers. It includes JJ (ever present Strangler), Baz (22 years a Strangler), Jim (10 years playing with The Stranglers), and Toby (new recruit in 2021, after the tragic loss of Dave).

Looking at how they got here (this bits a rambling trawl through their line-up history, known by most (all) on here; so please feel free to ignore, but it does add context to the above).

• Mk0 - The Stranglers started in ‘74 with Jet being joined by Hugh and some of Johnny Sox; they soon managed to jettison some of Johnny Sox and were joined by JJ. 11 Sept 74 The Stranglers (Jet, Hugh, Hans and JJ) were registered. The first Stranglers line-up change followed, with multi-instrumentalist Hans returning to Sweden.
• Mk1 - Jet, Hugh and JJ are joined by Dave on keys and occasional vocals in 1975. As a new and mostly unheard of act, nobody questions whether they should keep their name (or not to our knowledge, none of us having heard of them at the time). 15 more years of touring and 10 Stranglers albums later Hugh decides to quit the Stranglers (August 1990).
• MkII - Jet,JJ and Dave decide to continue, and after briefly considering a name change, they stick with The Stranglers. This also set the precedent that The Stranglers are more than any one member (no matter how significant that member was), and after recruiting first John Ellis on guitar (who had played on the last tour) and then Paul Roberts on vocals, they continue. The line up of Jet, JJ, Dave, John E and Paul lose a portion of their following, but also get some enthusiastic reviews as a reinvigorated live act (although many are disappointed at Paul also taking live vocals on songs originally recorded by JJ). Again only minimal rumblings seem to appear about this being The Stranglers, it’s not the same as the Hugh years (and a number are quite vociferous in their dislike of JE and PR) but most accept this line up as The Stranglers MkII. 10 more years of touring and 4 more Stranglers albums later, JE decides to quit.
• MkIII - The remaining Stranglers rapidly recruit Baz, and continue gigging, again no name change. Jet, JJ, Dave and Paul have played together for 10 years, Paul has ‘paid his dues’ as a Strangler and therefore with the addition of Baz they continue as The Stranglers, firstly with a concert appearance in Poland that the band were just about to set off for when JE quit. 6 years of touring and one more Stranglers album later (which is widely accepted as the best PR era album), PR quits.
• MkIV - The Stranglers continue as a four piece, although some (many) are disappointed at the loss of Paul (technically the best singer the Stranglers have had), fans also welcome the return of The Stranglers as a four piece, with three lead vocalists (Baz and JJ, plus Dave again taking the occasional live lead). This Stranglers line-up records two albums, both well received critically, and prove an increasingly popular live draw. Although a vocal minority appear to take increasing umbrage to Baz (and JJ), the vast majority at the time except this line-up as The Stranglers. However, during this period, due to ill health, Jet is forced to step back from live appearances. When unable to play his place is taken by Ian Bernard, then from 2012 by Jim Macauley, initially often sharing the stage with Jet for portions of gig, but the length and frequency of this reduces until 2015 when jet stops playing live. In 2018 Jet formally retires, with Jim now officially taking over full time.
• MkV(&VI?)- The line-up of JJ, Dave, Baz and Jim continue touring as The Stranglers, Jim having played with them for the last 6 years and Baz 18, so, as with previous changes, they have paid their dues, earning the right to be The Stranglers. They start to record their latest album, and announce their last full tour for 2020 (partially because of the toll extended tours are taking on the band, and in particular Dave, who is now their oldest member). However the pandemic hits and tragically Dave catches COVID whilst in hospital, and dies. After a pause to consider their options, the band decide to finish their album (for which Dave has laid keyboard parts down on 8 tracks) and fulfil their tour commitments ‘in Memory of Dave’. The album is finished and released in 2021, with probably The Stranglers most positive critical reviews and the highest chart performance achieved for about 40 years. Late 2021 the Stranglers commence touring, with Toby Hounsham recruited on keyboards.

Although the current line-up only has one member of the original Stranglers, the band have continuously existed, with Baz having served 22 years and Jim for 10, this I strongly argue and believe gives them the moral right and even expectation to continue as The Stranglers. I know certain members on here will disagree, but I contend the above is pretty much indisputable by reasonable and unbiased individuals.

[adeinblack]

Agree. The main point is that they have been continous.

[Bear Cage]

Agree. The main point is that they have been continous.

Yes, I should’ve just written that

[parasiteinblack]

Yes, great post, a shame you're having to post it though.
In my Norwich review, although mixed, I still consider the band I saw this evening to be the Stranglers, just a different Stranglers to before.

[jason]

I agree with this.

[Greatkudu]

Some musings on why the current line-up is The Stranglers (and not “JJ and Friends” or similar).
If the band had broken up and then one of the ex-Stranglers had, a few years later, formed a band with no other former band-mates then I would disagree that they are the Stranglers.
However this is not the case for The Stranglers, that have never ceased, they have continuously toured and released albums as The Stranglers, and the current line-up has ‘paid their dues in time served’ to earn their right to be The Stranglers. It includes JJ (ever present Strangler), Baz (22 years a Strangler), Jim (10 years playing with The Stranglers), and Toby (new recruit in 2021, after the tragic loss of Dave).

Looking at how they got here (this bits a rambling trawl through their line-up history, known by most (all) on here; so please feel free to ignore, but it does add context to the above).

• Mk0 - The Stranglers started in ‘74 with Jet being joined by Hugh and some of Johnny Sox; they soon managed to jettison some of Johnny Sox and were joined by JJ. 11 Sept 74 The Stranglers (Jet, Hugh, Hans and JJ) were registered. The first Stranglers line-up change followed, with multi-instrumentalist Hans returning to Sweden.
• Mk1 - Jet, Hugh and JJ are joined by Dave on keys and occasional vocals in 1975. As a new and mostly unheard of act, nobody questions whether they should keep their name (or not to our knowledge, none of us having heard of them at the time). 15 more years of touring and 10 Stranglers albums later Hugh decides to quit the Stranglers (August 1990).
• MkII - Jet,JJ and Dave decide to continue, and after briefly considering a name change, they stick with The Stranglers. This also set the precedent that The Stranglers are more than any one member (no matter how significant that member was), and after recruiting first John Ellis on guitar (who had played on the last tour) and then Paul Roberts on vocals, they continue. The line up of Jet, JJ, Dave, John E and Paul lose a portion of their following, but also get some enthusiastic reviews as a reinvigorated live act (although many are disappointed at Paul also taking live vocals on songs originally recorded by JJ). Again only minimal rumblings seem to appear about this being The Stranglers, it’s not the same as the Hugh years (and a number are quite vociferous in their dislike of JE and PR) but most accept this line up as The Stranglers MkII. 10 more years of touring and 4 more Stranglers albums later, JE decides to quit.
• MkIII - The remaining Stranglers rapidly recruit Baz, and continue gigging, again no name change. Jet, JJ, Dave and Paul have played together for 10 years, Paul has ‘paid his dues’ as a Strangler and therefore with the addition of Baz they continue as The Stranglers, firstly with a concert appearance in Poland that the band were just about to set off for when JE quit. 6 years of touring and one more Stranglers album later (which is widely accepted as the best PR era album), PR quits.
• MkIV - The Stranglers continue as a four piece, although some (many) are disappointed at the loss of Paul (technically the best singer the Stranglers have had), fans also welcome the return of The Stranglers as a four piece, with three lead vocalists (Baz and JJ, plus Dave again taking the occasional live lead). This Stranglers line-up records two albums, both well received critically, and prove an increasingly popular live draw. Although a vocal minority appear to take increasing umbrage to Baz (and JJ), the vast majority at the time except this line-up as The Stranglers. However, during this period, due to ill health, Jet is forced to step back from live appearances. When unable to play his place is taken by Ian Bernard, then from 2012 by Jim Macauley, initially often sharing the stage with Jet for portions of gig, but the length and frequency of this reduces until 2015 when jet stops playing live. In 2018 Jet formally retires, with Jim now officially taking over full time.
• MkV(&VI?)- The line-up of JJ, Dave, Baz and Jim continue touring as The Stranglers, Jim having played with them for the last 6 years and Baz 18, so, as with previous changes, they have paid their dues, earning the right to be The Stranglers. They start to record their latest album, and announce their last full tour for 2020 (partially because of the toll extended tours are taking on the band, and in particular Dave, who is now their oldest member). However the pandemic hits and tragically Dave catches COVID whilst in hospital, and dies. After a pause to consider their options, the band decide to finish their album (for which Dave has laid keyboard parts down on 8 tracks) and fulfil their tour commitments ‘in Memory of Dave’. The album is finished and released in 2021, with probably The Stranglers most positive critical reviews and the highest chart performance achieved for about 40 years. Late 2021 the Stranglers commence touring, with Toby Hounsham recruited on keyboards.

Although the current line-up only has one member of the original Stranglers, the band have continuously existed, with Baz having served 22 years and Jim for 10, this I strongly argue and believe gives them the moral right and even expectation to continue as The Stranglers. I know certain members on here will disagree, but I contend the above is pretty much indisputable by reasonable and unbiased individuals.

Fantastic post, forensic analysis I totally agree with all you say. Lt Kudu.

[Yanders]

All you've done there is chart how people have left and joined the band.

When people on here claim that the stranglers have become 'JJ and friends' they are pointing out the same - that people have left and joined the band and are now a group of people on stage where only one member has any input into the majority of the set.

The current line up is still relying on the ability of a lineup long gone. If only 7 of the set was mk1 material and the majority written with baz (and later jim) you'd have a point.

[alaninblack]

The current line up is still relying on the ability of a lineup long gone. If only 7 of the set was mk1 material and the majority written with baz (and later jim) you'd have a point.

This is a good point and the reason that some ask for name changes, or refer to the current line up as a tribute. I have said before, that I would prefer if they played more post Baz material and not 70% MKI - then there would not be any such need for this topic. I would prefer 80% post Baz with a good bit of MKI as an encore.

The alter argument to this is that the punters are paying to hear MKI and really nothing else, like going to see the Rolling Stones, but they dont have the issue of is it the Stones or not.

[alaninblack]

On another tangent

1. Current line up play 70% MKI - many not happy, ppl ask for name change, refer to them as tribute.

2. Current line up release new studio album. No one asks for name change or calls them a tribute.

So the is the issue with only what they are playing live ?

[theraven1979]

All you've done there is chart how people have left and joined the band.

When people on here claim that the stranglers have become 'JJ and friends' they are pointing out the same - that people have left and joined the band and are now a group of people on stage where only one member has any input into the majority of the set.

The current line up is still relying on the ability of a lineup long gone. If only 7 of the set was mk1 material and the majority written with baz (and later jim) you'd have a point.

Agreed and all very factual. Sure if others are enthused by this lineup then yeah sing it from the rooftops but it's a band with one original member. Doesn't matter how many times in your own mind you try and justify it "he is a proper strangler now cos he wears black" etc that's your emotional stance on it all.

Funny cos i was listening to an interview with Terry Chambers of XTC talking about his band E-XTC and their new tour. When asked "Why don't you can yourself XTC?" He simply replied "well that would be insulting"

Of course when the stranglers announced this tour there was 2 members and I firmly believe they should tour under that banner. Particularly as this tour is a tribute to Dave. We get that.


Finally, did we really need another discussion on this? Been raised time and time again already


Jim

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[Yanders]

So the is the issue with only what they are playing live?

I think it makes a difference. Fans might not like the albums with different members because they will have a variety of abilities and styles, and say things like 'they aren't what they use to be', but at least they are producing something.

And if the band don't play that material long term, it'd prove that point. They'll almost be two different bands at the same time - one producing material that's unlikely to be played live and one touring old material.

Although the band may prefer the most recent albums, but are contractually obliged to play what the management /audience want.

[Bear Cage]

All you've done there is chart how people have left and joined the band.

When people on here claim that the stranglers have become 'JJ and friends' they are pointing out the same - that people have left and joined the band and are now a group of people on stage where only one member has any input into the majority of the set.

The current line up is still relying on the ability of a lineup long gone. If only 7 of the set was mk1 material and the majority written with baz (and later jim) you'd have a point.

When people are using JJ and friends the premise is The Stranglers Mk0 or MkI compared to The Stranglers MkVI, seemingly ignoring the existence of the MkII, MkIII, MkIV and MkV line-ups, all of which at the time seem to be accepted as The Stranglers. Whereas the reality is The Stranglers are continuous, with multiple stages in between, each of which are The Stranglers, and any comparison should recognise rather than skip that reality.

The argument then seems to move on to the set list (which I’ll come back to in a later post).,