French Tour Set Opener....

[Jon the Impaler]

Water
Grip
I’ve been wild
Nice and sleazy
This song
5 minutes
Always The sun
Golden brown
European female
La folie
White Stallion
Walk On By
Relentless
Unbroken
Peaches
Nuclear device
Duchess
Hanging Around
Man on the moon
Tank
Go buddy go
No more Heroes

22 songs. 15 of them MKI. 'Nuff said.

But that's always going to be the way, I think Relentless is among the bands best ever so deserves to be there , as does NC which isn't .Only 4 from the new album which is a bit unusual ,then it probably isn't to promote that anyway . It is what it is really.......go or don't go , choice is our own .I am wondering more again 'if' next year with the Mandela flu thing . Shouldn't say that should I ? The wokes will go loony .

[Lafleur]

https://youtu.be/D9AANMl36hw
First impression... Nuclear Device 2021

[Jake]

First impression is hardly a revelation, he has big shoes to fill, and the absence of Dave is painfully apparent, found it quite hard to watch to be honest…

[jeromeinparis]

https://youtu.be/D9AANMl36hw
First impression... Nuclear Device 2021

My pleasure !

[StanInBlack]

First impression is hardly a revelation, he has big shoes to fill, and the absence of Dave is painfully apparent, found it quite hard to watch to be honest…

Yeah, although what is also painfully apparent - aside from the obvious absence of Dave, of course - is that it's a pretty professionally played but ultimately characterless rendition of the track, because most of the people responsible for the overall character of the track are no longer there - and this is what gives it the overall "tribute band"-y feel that they're probably never going to escape from from this point.

Now, I'm not going to have a go at Toby - he's clearly been hired to do a job which is to play Dave's parts to the best of his ability, and to be fair that's exactly what he's doing. No, he's not on the level of Dave when he was in his prime, but he's an improvement on the way Dave's playing was going towards the end due to health problems hampering his performance. Unfortunately though, he's not Dave Greenfield and even if he played Dave's parts down to the letter, there's a difference between someone slavishly trying to recreate something that someone else created and the parts being played by the person who originally played them. I think it shows, and you now have three people in the band doing this.

What lets that performance of "Nuclear Device" down for me are actually the performances of Jim and Baz. Jim's drumming is far too heavy handed and there's some inappropriate embellishments and deviations from the actual part, so it sounds odd - as if I'm listening to the drummer in a pub band play it... and of course the moment Baz starts singing it's just the cherry on the top of a general overall feeling that this doesn't even feel like The Stranglers anymore, let alone LOOK like them. We're totally in the realms of pure business now, there's no real reason - as far as I can see - for the band to exist otherwise.

[Jake]

I agree Stan. From the little clip I saw, Toby does a good job at what he’s been hired to do.
It’s never felt more like a tribute act though, and that’s not an insult, it’s just a fact. Also you made a comment earlier about the ratio of Hugh era material compared to Post Hugh. It seems to defeat the purpose of being a current concern, with a well reviewed album to only play four songs from it, surely they have a bit more faith in their new product? I seem to remember most of Norfolk Coast being played at the shows of that era. Ultimately good luck to them, if it’s others cup of tea good luck to you, enjoy.

[Lafleur]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqzEamGPGjQ
No More Heroes

[aldinblack]

First impression is hardly a revelation, he has big shoes to fill, and the absence of Dave is painfully apparent, found it quite hard to watch to be honest…

Yeah, although what is also painfully apparent - aside from the obvious absence of Dave, of course - is that it's a pretty professionally played but ultimately characterless rendition of the track, because most of the people responsible for the overall character of the track are no longer there - and this is what gives it the overall "tribute band"-y feel that they're probably never going to escape from from this point.

Now, I'm not going to have a go at Toby - he's clearly been hired to do a job which is to play Dave's parts to the best of his ability, and to be fair that's exactly what he's doing. No, he's not on the level of Dave when he was in his prime, but he's an improvement on the way Dave's playing was going towards the end due to health problems hampering his performance. Unfortunately though, he's not Dave Greenfield and even if he played Dave's parts down to the letter, there's a difference between someone slavishly trying to recreate something that someone else created and the parts being played by the person who originally played them. I think it shows, and you now have three people in the band doing this.

What lets that performance of "Nuclear Device" down for me are actually the performances of Jim and Baz. Jim's drumming is far too heavy handed and there's some inappropriate embellishments and deviations from the actual part, so it sounds odd - as if I'm listening to the drummer in a pub band play it... and of course the moment Baz starts singing it's just the cherry on the top of a general overall feeling that this doesn't even feel like The Stranglers anymore, let alone LOOK like them. We're totally in the realms of pure business now, there's no real reason - as far as I can see - for the band to exist otherwise.

I can't really disagree with any of what you've said, although I've enjoyed the mk1V Stranglers tremendously over the last 15 years, so now I will try out mk5 for what it is.

I might add though that I also enjoy watching Straighten Out play, so at this stage I would expect to enjoy mk5 too, even though I realise it's not what it once was. I'm sure it'll still be a good night out, as long as this Covid shit pisses off soon and we're not all forced to sit there like stiffs with a mask on. For me it's that that would ruin it and probably spell the end of my gig going days...

Incidentally, when you talk about the reduction in real Stranglers personell, and what that does to the stranglers classic songs you could of course apply that to Hugh as well.

I mean when Hugh plays Stranglers songs there is no JJ, Jet, or Dave. In fact there is no keyboard of any description. So he is just being a tribute of the real Stranglers, even though he doesn't call himself "The Stranglers".
I could have said that at least the original voice is still there with Hugh, but recently he's begun to sing JJ sung songs as well, making him even more of a tribute act. None of this applies when he plays his own material, but even then his current bass player and drummer were not necessarily part of its creation, so they too are tributing..

[StanInBlack]

I mean when Hugh plays Stranglers songs there is no JJ, Jet, or Dave. In fact there is no keyboard of any description. So he is just being a tribute of the real Stranglers, even though he doesn't call himself "The Stranglers".

The difference (and it is a key one) is that Hugh Cornwell isn't pretending that his solo shows are The Stranglers, whereas this current Stranglers line-up are. As you've said yourself there is no keyboard of any description in Hugh's solo shows, which is a conscious decision by Hugh to distinguish the way he plays his songs live from the way he played them with his former band. And of course they're his songs. Nobody says Paul Weller is paying tribute to The Jam or The Style Council when he plays his older material, and the same should apply to Hugh. Hugh also plays a larger amount of material that he's released post 1990.

Also, people go to Hugh Cornwell shows to see Hugh Cornwell - no matter who it is that happens to be in his backing band at the time. That's how solo artists work and that's what people get. People go to Stranglers shows to see The Stranglers and I'd argue that's NOT what they're getting.

[Greatkudu]

This is a hard one, yes Toby a great player, but the clip i just saw, he struggled badly with the Heroes solo, Dave played it better even with his Health issues, but to be fair he did a good job, but he seemed to struggle and shortened the solo, i would love to see a review here as sadly I didn't end up fucking going and yes I'm Bisted and Twitter, as for Jim a great drummer, but maybe use some lighter drum sticks as he uses tub thumpers, I think he should use 5a as a great compromise between weight and speed, sorry for the negative comments. Lt Kudu.

[shah]

I am completely inspired by a band wanting to get out there and play, especially with a leader who's nearly 70.
I am not inspired by that setlist as a 'final tour' set.
It's a greatest hits set - which I totally understand as a base of 'have to plays' - no have no issue with that.
A few from the very good new LP - no issue with that at all.
But it's the 'other choices'.
There's no 'switching it up' - the usual 4 song slow section, and the more recently aired 'I've been Wild' and 'Unbroken' which, although worth a golf clap, could get benched for an eyebrow raising perky moment with the likes of "Spectre", 'Barbara", "Lost Control", "Big Thing Coming" or "I Don't Agree"?

And, most importantly, as the 'final set' it's missing a few of the 'heavier/classic fan' songs that shape the other side of the band from the saccharine of the hits - no Sewer, Toiler, JLNOE, Baroque, 4 Horsies , nothing from the Black side of B&W, and of course, The Raven - so to me it's missing the texture to add to the sweetness which makes the whole thing delicious.

[jetblacksdad]

As i said before, we should be gracious and accepting that these are very odd circumstances. Baz has been in the band a heck of a long time and they have the right to call themselves the Stranglers - for now.

Finish the tour commitments and then the discussion could be had about if it's right to carry on under the name