French Tour Set Opener....

[Greatkudu]

I watched a version of “Water” on YouTube not sure what gig, but I really didn’t rate the drumming even more live than on record. Ok I’m not a drummer, but good drummers are hard to come by, There is so much more to drumming than just hitting hard and crashing on the symbols, which was what the drummer was doing, sorry but I don’t rate him much at all. Granted he’s not the worst drummer out there by any stretch but totally lacks the subtlety of Jet integral to the stranglers sound imho

Sir you just have to accept Jim is not Jet and never will be, he hits the drums so much harder and has tub thumping sticks which are 3A,but he gives the band alot of energy, and does some nice little Cymbal touches, I watch with scrutiny what he does and I see things I'm not happy with but I'm being picky, JJ is obviously happy with him as he needs the drummer to be tight for his bass, but of course Jet had far more subtley as he came from a Jazz background, IMHO Jazz drummers are the best, but Jim is a really good drummer, not the greatest, but more importantly he fits with band, you could put the best drummer in the world in the Stranglers and he or she wouldn't Necessarily be right for the band, so i am happy with Jim but he gives his drums some abuse as he hits fucking hard.Lt Kudu.

[Jake]

Sir you just have to accept Jim is not Jet and never will be, he hits the drums so much harder and has tub thumping sticks which are 3A,but he gives the band alot of energy, and does some nice little Cymbal touches, I watch with scrutiny what he does and I see things I'm not happy with but I'm being picky, JJ is obviously happy with him as he needs the drummer to be tight for his bass, but of course Jet had far more subtley as he came from a Jazz background, IMHO Jazz drummers are the best, but Jim is a really good drummer, not the greatest, but more importantly he fits with band, you could put the best drummer in the world in the Stranglers and he or she wouldn't Necessarily be right for the band, so i am happy with Jim but he gives his drums some abuse as he hits fucking hard.Lt Kudu.

Fair enough, he doesn’t do it for me, but I get that others are fine with him.


Slightly related in one of Hugh’s biographies, I forget whether it was Multitude of Sins, Song By Song, or possibly even No Mercy, he mentions something about JJ wanting to get rid of Jet in the late 70s and replacing him with a faster drummer. Now I don’t know if that’s BS, and thankfully they stuck with Jet. I know a lot will disagree with me, but I also think as well as being a great live drummer, Jet was a great programmer of synthetic drums, that one will obviously divide people though.

I find it harder and harder watching the YouTube videos from recent gigs, because it’s glaringly obvious there’s only one original strangler left. I’m not knocking for the sake of it, but I find less and less I can identify with in what passes for the stranglers these days. I bought Dark Matters because I have always had great admiration for JJ Burnel, together with the knowledge that it contained the last work of Dave Greenfield, but beyond that I don’t see myself being especially interested by what happens next with the stranglers brand, but each to their own eh

[Bear Cage]

Sir you just have to accept Jim is not Jet and never will be, he hits the drums so much harder and has tub thumping sticks which are 3A,but he gives the band alot of energy, and does some nice little Cymbal touches, I watch with scrutiny what he does and I see things I'm not happy with but I'm being picky, JJ is obviously happy with him as he needs the drummer to be tight for his bass, but of course Jet had far more subtley as he came from a Jazz background, IMHO Jazz drummers are the best, but Jim is a really good drummer, not the greatest, but more importantly he fits with band, you could put the best drummer in the world in the Stranglers and he or she wouldn't Necessarily be right for the band, so i am happy with Jim but he gives his drums some abuse as he hits fucking hard.Lt Kudu.

Fair enough, he doesn’t do it for me, but I get that others are fine with him.


Slightly related in one of Hugh’s biographies, I forget whether it was Multitude of Sins, Song By Song, or possibly even No Mercy, he mentions something about JJ wanting to get rid of Jet in the late 70s and replacing him with a faster drummer. Now I don’t know if that’s BS, and thankfully they stuck with Jet. I know a lot will disagree with me, but I also think as well as being a great live drummer, Jet was a great programmer of synthetic drums, that one will obviously divide people though.

I find it harder and harder watching the YouTube videos from recent gigs, because it’s glaringly obvious there’s only one original strangler left. I’m not knocking for the sake of it, but I find less and less I can identify with in what passes for the stranglers these days. I bought Dark Matters because I have always had great admiration for JJ Burnel, together with the knowledge that it contained the last work of Dave Greenfield, but beyond that I don’t see myself being especially interested by what happens next with the stranglers brand, but each to their own eh

It was pre The Stranglers signing for a record company, John Moss (later of Damned and Culture Club) had suggested to JJ he might be a better drummer and JJ mentioned it to Hugh, but it was quickly dismissed and not raised again.

[aldinblack]

Sir you just have to accept Jim is not Jet and never will be, he hits the drums so much harder and has tub thumping sticks which are 3A,but he gives the band alot of energy, and does some nice little Cymbal touches, I watch with scrutiny what he does and I see things I'm not happy with but I'm being picky, JJ is obviously happy with him as he needs the drummer to be tight for his bass, but of course Jet had far more subtley as he came from a Jazz background, IMHO Jazz drummers are the best, but Jim is a really good drummer, not the greatest, but more importantly he fits with band, you could put the best drummer in the world in the Stranglers and he or she wouldn't Necessarily be right for the band, so i am happy with Jim but he gives his drums some abuse as he hits fucking hard.Lt Kudu.

Fair enough, he doesn’t do it for me, but I get that others are fine with him.


Slightly related in one of Hugh’s biographies, I forget whether it was Multitude of Sins, Song By Song, or possibly even No Mercy, he mentions something about JJ wanting to get rid of Jet in the late 70s and replacing him with a faster drummer. Now I don’t know if that’s BS, and thankfully they stuck with Jet. I know a lot will disagree with me, but I also think as well as being a great live drummer, Jet was a great programmer of synthetic drums, that one will obviously divide people though.

I find it harder and harder watching the YouTube videos from recent gigs, because it’s glaringly obvious there’s only one original strangler left. I’m not knocking for the sake of it, but I find less and less I can identify with in what passes for the stranglers these days. I bought Dark Matters because I have always had great admiration for JJ Burnel, together with the knowledge that it contained the last work of Dave Greenfield, but beyond that I don’t see myself being especially interested by what happens next with the stranglers brand, but each to their own eh

I agree with your JJ admiration sentiment, and yes to get DM out with Dave's work on it was quite an achievement I think. But beyond that, I still can't really imagine a Daveless Stranglers...

But as for getting rid of Jet, well I would have liked to have seen JJ try and pull off that stunt! Good job they thought better of it...

[Jake]

I agree with your JJ admiration sentiment, and yes to get DM out with Dave's work on it was quite an achievement I think. But beyond that, I still can't really imagine a Daveless Stranglers...

But as for getting rid of Jet, well I would have liked to have seen JJ try and pull off that stunt! Good job they thought better of it...

Yes, I can look at Dark Matters as, well at least I got 4 new JJ tracks, I quite like two of them, but not very keen on the other two. At least JJ does some vocals, because if it was just Baz I wouldn’t be interested.

I seem to recall a different story to how Bear Cage told it with regards to JJ thinking of replacing Jet with a faster younger drummmer, that it occurred around B&W, but it’s that long since I read any of those biographies, I will be the first to admit it could be a case of misremembering. Jet was definitely the true asset of the stranglers, I dont think it can be understated that without Jet they probably would never have got off the ground.

[Bear Cage]

I agree with your JJ admiration sentiment, and yes to get DM out with Dave's work on it was quite an achievement I think. But beyond that, I still can't really imagine a Daveless Stranglers...

But as for getting rid of Jet, well I would have liked to have seen JJ try and pull off that stunt! Good job they thought better of it...

Yes, I can look at Dark Matters as, well at least I got 4 new JJ tracks, I quite like two of them, but not very keen on the other two. At least JJ does some vocals, because if it was just Baz I wouldn’t be interested.

I seem to recall a different story to how Bear Cage told it with regards to JJ thinking of replacing Jet with a faster younger drummmer, that it occurred around B&W, but it’s that long since I read any of those biographies, I will be the first to admit it could be a case of misremembering. Jet was definitely the true asset of the stranglers, I dont think it can be understated that without Jet they probably would never have got off the ground.

I re-read it a couple of days back

[Jake]

I re-read it a couple of days back

Fair enough, the memory does play tricks…

[Bear Cage]

I re-read it a couple of days back

Fair enough, the memory does play tricks…

It’s in Song by Song, quite late in the book.

[toilerinblack]

I watched a version of “Water” on YouTube not sure what gig, but I really didn’t rate the drumming even more live than on record. Ok I’m not a drummer, but good drummers are hard to come by, There is so much more to drumming than just hitting hard and crashing on the symbols, which was what the drummer was doing, sorry but I don’t rate him much at all. Granted he’s not the worst drummer out there by any stretch but totally lacks the subtlety of Jet integral to the stranglers sound imho

Sir you just have to accept Jim is not Jet and never will be, he hits the drums so much harder and has tub thumping sticks which are 3A,but he gives the band alot of energy, and does some nice little Cymbal touches, I watch with scrutiny what he does and I see things I'm not happy with but I'm being picky, JJ is obviously happy with him as he needs the drummer to be tight for his bass, but of course Jet had far more subtley as he came from a Jazz background, IMHO Jazz drummers are the best, but Jim is a really good drummer, not the greatest, but more importantly he fits with band, you could put the best drummer in the world in the Stranglers and he or she wouldn't Necessarily be right for the band, so i am happy with Jim but he gives his drums some abuse as he hits fucking hard.Lt Kudu.

Well again you are the drummer out of us and i'm not and you studying the every move of Jim live and thinking he's hitting to hard with a 3A stick or whatever i hear you,i as a non drummer thought people thought his drumming on DM was great and was full of prasises for Jim.
Are you saying that the recordings he did in the studio was good enough but it's different when a drummer plays live with the acoustic sounds up on stage within a band playing live he's now using the wrong weighted sticks? again like i say i'm the non drummer whose just finishing off after weeks of studying and hearing Jim past efforts with other bands since 2008 and i think that his experiance as a drummer and a studio technician is more than qualified to play correctly and good enough for the stranglers who suerly would of probably known i would of thought as a pro too about what your saying is wrong with his play and what about Jet does he think Jim's playing wrongly on his ex songs live ?
I can see live that JJ really gets on with him and obviously has to work so closely with his drummer as bassists and drummers do so i don't really understand all the little not good enoughs as i'm not a drummer, but for me i'm more than happy with Jim after now nearly a decade with the band can he really not hear or understand that he's hitting to hard with the wrong weighted sticks if i understand correctly from a drummer like yourself?
Can the band members not hear that it's wrong especially jj with Jim right behind him playing together with his every note on the bass?
Like i say i wouldn't understand the drumming in and out's others do ,but for me i'm more than happy with him and how he's played in France.
But i have listened to a drummer's opinion on Jim which is more than fair enough your the expert and i'm not so to speak, but for me including now Toby the four of them have again been more than good enough and was well received by the French audience....well done to all of them from just one fan's opinion on them playing amazingly to tracks like Tank and Heroes where Jim i think certainly stood right out on sound and pace,again i'm the non drummer on the subject compared to others who know more about drumming than me.

[alaninblack]

can he really not hear or understand that he's hitting to hard with the wrong weighted sticks if i understand correctly from a drummer like yourself?
Can the band members not hear that it's wrong especially jj with Jim right behind him playing together with his every note on the bass?

Maybe the band actually have talked about it, and that is what they now want, something a lot less subtle than Jet's playing ?

[toilerinblack]

can he really not hear or understand that he's hitting to hard with the wrong weighted sticks if i understand correctly from a drummer like yourself?
Can the band members not hear that it's wrong especially jj with Jim right behind him playing together with his every note on the bass?

Maybe the band actually have talked about it, and that is what they now want, something a lot less subtle than Jet's playing ?

oh ok you could be right there i wouldn't know all i know is to me in France i thought they sounded and played great as a unit with a great crowd reaction and reviews which surely is at the end of the day the most important thing,they've all done so well being the first tour without Dave,Be intresting to hear what others think again come UK tour time,where i think the band should just continue on the way they are because i can't see or hear to much wrong within the full set,where again i'm sure they will be changing the set about to suit them through the tour,it will be and intresting wait when it does start in this country or whenever the rules will allow it to go ahead fingers crossed.

[markorbit]

Wasn't there some talk of JJ saying they had to 'reign him in a bit'? Doesn't that that tell you that they were aware of Jim's default playing style?