Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

JJ Burnel, ...., Baz Warne, Jim Macaulay.

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StanInBlack
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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parasiteinblack wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 00:43 "the 80s" encompasses a broad spectrum of sonic delights
Correct. There was far more to the trends of the time than, say, gated snares (which not every record recorded and released in the '80s had)
parasiteinblack wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 00:43 and some parts of it now sound more "poorly aged" than others
This is more a subjective interpretation of how a recording sounds to an individual outside of the context of the time in which it was released, and a principle that applies to every decade of recorded music ever - this does not make The Final Cut any more or less "dated" and/or "of its time" than Aural Sculpture.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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StanInBlack wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 23:02
unbroken69 wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 22:59 Apart from North Winds and Souls it all sounds so dated. Nothing wrong with being of its time, but the best Stranglers albums sound timeless.
"Dated" is not a pejorative, and there's no such thing as timelessness. An album released in 1984 sounds like an album recorded in 1983/1984? What a shocker!
I agree, 'dated' isn't pejorative and I wasn't using it pejoratively.

Rattus, The Raven, Black and White all sound quite fresh compared to the last 3 Mark I albums. That was my point, although you knew that already. :grin:
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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unbroken69 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 01:22 Rattus, The Raven, Black and White all sound quite fresh compared to the last 3 Mark I albums.
All Stranglers MKI albums sound like they were recorded and released in the period in which they were recorded and released and are a document of the way the band were at that time. That's part of the point of a recording - to document a moment in time. If Rattus Norvegicus sounds more "fresh" than 10, it's because Rattus Norvegicus was recorded and released by a relatively youthful and excited close-knit unit at the very beginning of their journey as professional recording artists, and 10 was recorded and released by a fragmenting, jaded unit who'd been around the block several times over and had begun to get bored of the process and each other, which is part of the reason why I think 10 is the worst MKI album and why Hugh's Wolf is a superior record.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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Something sounds dated when it employs a sound palette that emerged at a particular time, gets overused and then falls from use.

Think Simmons synthtoms, stock Fairlight CMI samples or deliberate autotuning - as such, Aural Sculptures sounds dated because of it's ornamental brass section that firmly pins it in the 80s.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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StanInBlack wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 01:36
unbroken69 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 01:22 Rattus, The Raven, Black and White all sound quite fresh compared to the last 3 Mark I albums.
All Stranglers MKI albums sound like they were recorded and released in the period in which they were recorded and released and are a document of the way the band were at that time. That's part of the point of a recording - to document a moment in time. If Rattus Norvegicus sounds more "fresh" than 10, it's because Rattus Norvegicus was recorded and released by a relatively youthful and excited close-knit unit at the very beginning of their journey as professional recording artists, and 10 was recorded and released by a fragmenting, jaded unit who'd been around the block several times over and had begun to get bored of the process and each other, which is part of the reason why I think 10 is the worst MKI album and why Hugh's Wolf is a superior record.
Not really, for example No More Heroes, which is a good album sounds more dated than Rattus and The Raven as it's trying to sound a bit more contemporary.

Hadn't played Wolf in years, just gave it a spin, it's certainly less complicated than 10, got some decent creative sounds, but it's all a bit meh.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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8088 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 10:08 Something sounds dated when it employs a sound palette that emerged at a particular time, gets overused and then falls from use.
That's *a* reason - but the fact of the matter is that you can't prevent any recording from "dating" ... even those beloved (by many) Beatles records don't sound contemporary in 2021 no matter how much Beatles fans (many of whom are legitimately batshit) convince themselves that they do. It sounds like a band in the '60s making the music of the time for an audience of the time and recording it on the equipment of the time.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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unbroken69 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 10:44 Not really, for example No More Heroes, which is a good album sounds more dated than Rattus and The Raven as it's trying to sound a bit more contemporary.
Rattus Norvegicus and No More Heroes - from a production standpoint - sound almost identical. As they would, with them both mostly being recorded at the same time. With this in mind, I can ignore your comments on Wolf.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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StanInBlack wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 11:20
8088 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 10:08 Something sounds dated when it employs a sound palette that emerged at a particular time, gets overused and then falls from use.
That's *a* reason - but the fact of the matter is that you can't prevent any recording from "dating" ... even those beloved (by many) Beatles records don't sound contemporary in 2021 no matter how much Beatles fans (many of whom are legitimately batshit) convince themselves that they do. It sounds like a band in the '60s making the music of the time for an audience of the time and recording it on the equipment of the time.
Depends - Beatles are a bad example because recording technology was still relatively rudimentary then and does indeed sound dated purely for technical reasons.

However, something like Non-Stop Erotic Caberet, despite being recorded in the early 80s and using technology of it's time (though not with flavour of the month sounds) still remains absolutely contemporary sounding.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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To be fair I actually love the production on AS, it gave the band a current feel of the time but still had the Stranglers trademarks, Hughs voice possibly top of his game? Even the drum machine sounds good. It's a quality album IMHO, but I think DMs also sounds quite modern production wise. Lt Kudu.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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8088 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 11:34 Depends - Beatles are a bad example because recording technology was still relatively rudimentary then and does indeed sound dated purely for technical reasons.
I'd argue that they're a perfectly good example as they were using the most up to date technology of their time, as The Stranglers were on Aural Sculpture, as Radiohead were on Kid A etc.
8088 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 11:34 However, something like Non-Stop Erotic Caberet, despite being recorded in the early 80s and using technology of it's time (though not with flavour of the month sounds) still remains absolutely contemporary sounding.
No it doesn't, it sounds like a record made in the early '80s. Not that I have a problem with this, the fact that it's redolent of a certain period is part of the appeal.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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Greatkudu wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 12:45 To be fair I actually love the production on AS, it gave the band a current feel of the time but still had the Stranglers trademarks, Hughs voice possibly top of his game? Even the drum machine sounds good. It's a quality album IMHO, but I think DMs also sounds quite modern production wise. Lt Kudu.
Yeah, it's clear to me that after Hugh quit the drugs he began to work more on his voice and thus I'd say that Aural Sculpture was the beginning of Hugh's peak period as vocalist, which really peaked around the time of Dreamtime (and the tour for that album) and Wolf. Obviously, I think he's been great in his solo career too - but 1987/1988 was the absolute epitome of Hugh's voice for me.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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StanInBlack wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 12:46
8088 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 11:34 Depends - Beatles are a bad example because recording technology was still relatively rudimentary then and does indeed sound dated purely for technical reasons.
I'd argue that they're a perfectly good example as they were using the most up to date technology of their time, as The Stranglers were on Aural Sculpture, as Radiohead were on Kid A etc.
But Aural Sculpture doesn't sound dated because of it's recording quality - whereas early Beatles do.
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