Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

[Greatkudu]

I would say Rattus sounds the most dated of any Stranglers album, because of the period it was recorded in and it was recorded more or less live with a few Guitar overdubs, but of course that's why it's such a great album as its so raw and you can hear the odd mistake. And song quality I don't need to point out, but production is better on Rattus than the infamous Coup De Grace, worst produced Stranglers album end of. Lt Kudu.

[unbroken69]

Just to throw a potential grenade into this. I think La Folie and MiB *don't* sound "dated" or even "of their time"

As you were.

Jim

Both unusual albums, two of my faves.

[toilerinblack]

Just to throw a potential grenade into this. I think La Folie and MiB *don't* sound "dated" or even "of their time"

As you were.

Jim

Agreed too.

[toilerinblack]

Apart from North Winds and Souls it all sounds so dated. Nothing wrong with being of its time, but the best Stranglers albums sound timeless.

"Dated" is not a pejorative, and there's no such thing as timelessness. An album released in 1984 sounds like an album recorded in 1983/1984? What a shocker!

I disagree songs can sound timeless for sure and not sound dated.

[StanInBlack]

Apart from North Winds and Souls it all sounds so dated. Nothing wrong with being of its time, but the best Stranglers albums sound timeless.

"Dated" is not a pejorative, and there's no such thing as timelessness. An album released in 1984 sounds like an album recorded in 1983/1984? What a shocker!

I disagree songs can sound timeless for sure and not sound dated.

Enjoying a recording outside of the context of the time in which it was created does not make something "timeless" ... it just means you're listening to a recording of a certain vintage in a different time period.

[toilerinblack]

"Dated" is not a pejorative, and there's no such thing as timelessness. An album released in 1984 sounds like an album recorded in 1983/1984? What a shocker!

I disagree songs can sound timeless for sure and not sound dated.

Enjoying a recording outside of the context of the time in which it was created does not make something "timeless" ... it just means you're listening to a recording of a certain vintage in a different time period.

I know that and what your saying and i still say songs can SOUND and not liked forever more meaning timeless in that context but songs can sound timeless, i think even Hugh has said as much with the old catalogue mixed in with the new being that the old material today is still very much sellable and sought after as music is timeless,that some of the bands old music can get bought not knowing just how old they are today that being music is timeless where you couldn't tell just how old the song is on hearing it,so for me for sure songs can be however old they might be and not sound dated i think in my one fan's opinion but each to their own on the subject of timeless though.

[StanInBlack]

I know that and what your saying and i still say songs can SOUND and not liked forever more meaning timeless in that context songs can sound timeless, i think even Hugh has said as much with the old catalogue mixed in with the new is still very much sellable as music is timeless,that some of the bands old music can get bought not knowing just how old they are today that being music is timeless where you couldn't tell just how old the song is on hearing it,so for me.for sure songs can be how ever old they might be and not sound dated i think in my one fan's opinion each to their own on the subject though.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say with the word salad above, but based off the bits I did understand you're wrong.

[toilerinblack]

I know that and what your saying and i still say songs can SOUND and not liked forever more meaning timeless in that context songs can sound timeless, i think even Hugh has said as much with the old catalogue mixed in with the new is still very much sellable as music is timeless,that some of the bands old music can get bought not knowing just how old they are today that being music is timeless where you couldn't tell just how old the song is on hearing it,so for me.for sure songs can be how ever old they might be and not sound dated i think in my one fan's opinion each to their own on the subject though.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say with the word salad above, but based off the bits I did understand you're wrong.

Well we agree to disagree on songs sounding timeless it's down to each individual ear on the listening of an old song is all i can say and i don't think that in my opinion i am wrong in my belief of songs sounding timeless but as usual each to their own,the main thing is that we all seem to enjoy the old songs regardless if it's timeless or not it's irrelevant as long as you enjoy what you are listening to is the main thing i think at the end of the day and for me it doesn't get any better than the old MK1 material from back in the day timeless or not and i think there are plenty to me that sound timeless from this bands history but again it's only how i hear music many may disagree.

[StanInBlack]

Well we agree to disagree on songs sounding timeless

Again, another long screed of word salad that I already answered several pages ago.

This is more a subjective interpretation of how a recording sounds to an individual outside of the context of the time in which it was released, and a principle that applies to every decade of recorded music ever

This does not make a recording "timeless" or less "of its time" ...

[toilerinblack]

Well we agree to disagree on songs sounding timeless

Again, another long screed of word salad that I already answered several pages ago.

This is more a subjective interpretation of how a recording sounds to an individual outside of the context of the time in which it was released, and a principle that applies to every decade of recorded music ever

This does not make a recording "timeless" or less "of its time" ...

So if a song still sounds fresh today and you wouldn't know it's a thirty year old song for example but still slots in with today's music is that then not then a timeless song? if not then i don't understand the word timeless maybe it's me,there's either a song that's timeless that sounds old but still sounds great today that's timeless or either a song you wouldn't know is old but sound's from today's market then that's also timeless it can only be one or the other, nothing more i can add to it really...each to their own as usual.

[StanInBlack]

So if a song still sounds fresh today and you wouldn't know it's a thirty year old song for example but still slots in with today's music is that then not then a timeless song?

No - because firstly, any piece of recorded music can sound "fresh" as a result of an individual not hearing it before. Secondly, are you really telling me that you can't tell the difference between a recording made in the '60s vs. a recording made in the '80s vs. a recording made in the 2010s? Because if you can't, I'm afraid you're immediately out of your depth in this discussion and haven't understood the discussion at all. Thirdly, please cite examples of thirty year old songs (so 1991, then) that "slot in with today's music" ...

[toilerinblack]

So if a song still sounds fresh today and you wouldn't know it's a thirty year old song for example but still slots in with today's music is that then not then a timeless song?

No - because firstly, any piece of recorded music can sound "fresh" as a result of an individual not hearing it before. Secondly, are you really telling me that you can't tell the difference between a recording made in the '60s vs. a recording made in the '80s vs. a recording made in the 2010s? Because if you can't, I'm afraid you're immediately out of your depth in this discussion and haven't understood the discussion at all. Thirdly, please cite examples of thirty year old songs (so 1991, then) that "slot in with today's music" ...

There's nothing more to add what i think is timeless so i'm out of the conversation then we all think differently and i still stand by songs can sound timeless,maybe my understanding is different to others and there really is no point in me expressing my interpretation of it.