New Rat Chat out

[aldinblack]

Songwriting, production, vocals don't have anything to do with themes. And those are what's so much weaker in DM.

Yes, and I guess those are some of what makes up "quality". And that quality from the early years can never be matched by either party now, although there are glimpses of it in the current output.
The reason is because there is no more Hugh/JJ/Dave/Jet combination at their peak anymore..

It could be said that Hugh's songwriting is as good as ever?
But that's not the point anyway, cause his final output is not as good as the original Stranglers at their peak..

[StanInBlack]

It could be said that Hugh's songwriting is as good as ever?

It is as good as ever.

But that's not the point anyway, cause his final output is not as good as the original Stranglers at their peak..

I disagree, I think albums like Guilty, Hi Fi, Beyond Elysian Fields and Totem and Taboo are easily as good as MKI at their peak in terms of quality even if they're not being a carbon copy or a replica of MKI.

[StanInBlack]

Songwriting, production, vocals don't have anything to do with themes. And those are what's so much weaker in DM.

I understood completely what you meant. You want something of the same high standard as The Raven but made on its own terms rather than being an attempt to copy The Raven (it'd sound terrible if either party tried to re-make it too) ...

[aldinblack]

It could be said that Hugh's songwriting is as good as ever?

It is as good as ever.

But that's not the point anyway, cause his final output is not as good as the original Stranglers at their peak..

I disagree, I think albums like Guilty, Hi Fi, Beyond Elysian Fields and Totem and Taboo are easily as good as MKI at their peak in terms of quality even if they're not being a carbon copy or a replica of MKI.

Well you know that is up for debate and again what individuals perceive as something being good or of high quality, and even how that is measured anyway..

For me, when I listen to album tracks like The Raven or Genetix, or Who Wants The World, or Nuclear Device, or countless other mk1 classics, they just can't be beat by anything. You've got all 4 originals playing at the peak of their powers on those tracks.
No other music has ever had the same effect on me..

[theraven1979]

I was referring to Hugh's output. "The Stranglers" will always try and have to sound like whatever the fuck people think "The Stranglers" sound should be these days and as such their output always falls short. Thankfully, Hugh has the freedom to express whatever he wants.

Jim

Songwriting, production, vocals don't have anything to do with themes. And those are what's so much weaker in DM.

[TatRat]

Even the 4 original individuals were never able to match that quality again either.

[theraven1979]

Agreed - I think Hugh's output for me though is a natural progression as the songwriting and musicianship seems to have gone in the right direction and to a great level of quality. Just my opinion of course and I do enjoy a fair chunk of post 1990 output from the other party.

Jim

Even the 4 original individuals were never able to match that quality again either.

[Yanders]

I don't know. They still play always the sun, so were producing quality work late on in mk1. 10 wasn't good, but what's to say they couldn't bounce back with something better. They produced golden brown after the Gospel, so could've done similar again.

Mk1 into the 1990s and beyond might have been a car crash, or really interesting. But it would have need all four of them want it and not phone it in.

[StanInBlack]

Mk1 into the 1990s and beyond might have been a car crash, or really interesting. But it would have need all four of them want it and not phone it in.

It's tempting to think that if MKI had stuck together through the '90s then the Britpop years may have been kind to them - they WERE getting cited as an influence, after all - especially if they'd knuckled down and produced some great work. The Britpop years weren't kind to MKII due to the change of personnel and being perceived as a band desperately clinging on after their main songwriter and frontman had left - when The Stranglers were being cited as an influence (and this holds true today also and for subsequent line-ups) it wasn't the MKII line-up that those people were referring to.

[StanInBlack]

For me, when I listen to album tracks like The Raven or Genetix, or Who Wants The World, or Nuclear Device, or countless other mk1 classics, they just can't be beat by anything. You've got all 4 originals playing at the peak of their powers on those tracks.
No other music has ever had the same effect on me..

Of course, and I totally get it - listening to those four particular people playing the fuck out of their instruments while performing those incredible songs is a huge reason why I'm here in the first people, and I still get a lot of joy and pleasure out of those records. I look for different things in Hugh's solo work, although the musicianship on Hugh's albums is generally of a high standard.

[jonimac]

I’m not sure I can hear anyone being as good as peak Mk1 tbh.
I was having a think about this HC remaining a quality songwriter thing, and I genuinely cannot hear it.

I thought I’d jog my memory and have a look through the Spotify discography.
Honestly, except for Dead Of Night, I can’t see one memorable song since BEF.
And I’d like to think I have a reasonably eclectic taste in music

Could someone give me ten songs that can change my mind, post 2004?

[StanInBlack]

Please Don't Put Me on a Slowboat to Trowbridge
Delightful Nightmare
Stuck in Daily Mail Land
Bad Vibrations
Gods, Guns and Gays
A Street Called Carroll
The Most Beautiful Girl in Hollywood
Bilko
Attack of the Major Sevens
Duce Coochie Man

...or you could look at the poll threads for the post-BEF albums and see which tracks have the most votes