Statues and censoring old songs

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dronecatcher
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Re: Statues and censoring old songs

Post by dronecatcher »

parasiteinblack wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 22:23
dronecatcher wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 22:14
parasiteinblack wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 21:41 No, they're different things.
Why are they?
An example:

If I was in a conversation with a group of people and someone made a racist comment and I thought "wow, I don't think like that" then I would be non-racist.

If I was in a conversation with a group of people and someone made a racist comment and I said "wow, I don't think like that and here's why" then I would be anti-racist.

There seems to be much more to it than that but I've still got stuff to learn too.
That example isn't an analysis of definition but a description of either someone's discretion or failure of courage to engage. I've witnessed first hand countless examples of passionate anti-fascists/anti-racists who hold their tongue when confronted by an ugly proponent of such ignorance - simply because they're timid.
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Re: Statues and censoring old songs

Post by parasiteinblack »

dronecatcher wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 23:25
parasiteinblack wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 22:23
dronecatcher wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 22:14
Why are they?
An example:

If I was in a conversation with a group of people and someone made a racist comment and I thought "wow, I don't think like that" then I would be non-racist.

If I was in a conversation with a group of people and someone made a racist comment and I said "wow, I don't think like that and here's why" then I would be anti-racist.

There seems to be much more to it than that but I've still got stuff to learn too.
That example isn't an analysis of definition but a description of either someone's discretion or failure of courage to engage. I've witnessed first hand countless examples of passionate anti-fascists/anti-racists who hold their tongue when confronted by an ugly proponent of such ignorance - simply because they're timid.
Fair enough, maybe it wasn't a great example, as I say I still have things to learn.
Yes I can well believe the timidity of some of these anti-racists, I think most people have probably been in a situation where it feels like speaking out might be pointless at best, or maybe even making it worse. Maybe, if nothing else, this growing awareness will give more people the confidence to speak up against this ignorance.
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Re: Statues and censoring old songs

Post by sendwarrior »

Some people obviously need to spend two weeks living as a black woman, then see if they still think there is no racism, discrimination and prejudice.. :roll:

As for speaking out against racism, it's always painful and difficult, but it must be done because it's the right thing to do.

If you have the choice not to, that's part of your racial privilege, and the fact that you are unaware of this is part of the problem!
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dronecatcher
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Re: Statues and censoring old songs

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sendwarrior wrote: 22 Jul 2020, 14:43 Some people obviously need to spend two weeks living as a black woman, then see if they still think there is no racism, discrimination and prejudice.. :roll:
I don't think anyone here said racism, discrimination and prejudice don't exist though and experience of any of those are not just the preserve of black women.
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Re: Statues and censoring old songs

Post by Greatkudu »

sendwarrior wrote: 22 Jul 2020, 14:43 Some people obviously need to spend two weeks living as a black woman, then see if they still think there is no racism, discrimination and prejudice.. :roll:

As for speaking out against racism, it's always painful and difficult, but it must be done because it's the right thing to do.

If you have the choice not to, that's part of your racial privilege, and the fact that you are unaware of this is part of the problem!
Well only a black woman would know what it's like to suffer racism and black man to, look I hate racism, but ripping down statues and air brushing comedy and history, is not going to solve the problem of racism, it just alianates a large number of society from the cause, racism exists in different ethnic groups, its not black and white, no pun intended, I don't have the answers, but the BLM matter movement has been sabotaged by extremists, who it appears are anti semitic,and if you look in history, we all know what happened, so we need to educate the young in equality as people over a certain age have views you will not change now, just look at the Police in London, still target black men and women in posh cars, so racsim is still endemic in institutions like the army and police, the only hope is education.Lt Kudu getting heavy on Ops.
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Re: Statues and censoring old songs

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Greatkudu wrote: 23 Jul 2020, 10:43 Well only a black woman would know what it's like to suffer racism and black man to, look I hate racism, but ripping down statues and air brushing comedy and history, is not going to solve the problem of racism, it just alianates a large number of society from the cause, racism exists in different ethnic groups, its not black and white, no pun intended, I don't have the answers, but the BLM matter movement has been sabotaged by extremists, who it appears are anti semitic,and if you look in history, we all know what happened, so we need to educate the young in equality as people over a certain age have views you will not change now, just look at the Police in London, still target black men and women in posh cars, so racsim is still endemic in institutions like the army and police, the only hope is education.Lt Kudu getting heavy on Ops.
I agree with most of your points but you don't have to be black to experience racism. My sister lived and worked in South Africa in the 80s and was full of tales about murderous racism within the black community against any minority groups who weren't the right shade of black.
And myself, have witnesses the hatred in Indian and Pakinstani communities against those of the wrong cast - racism is out there but the UK is one of the most tolerant places on Earth but unfortunately you can't legislate against ignorance.

Anti-racists tell us you can't judge a person by the colour of their skin - rightly so but in the same breath judge people by the history of their culture - total hypocrisy.

As for London cops targeting blacks in 'posh' cars - any stats for that? And what would the stats be for convictions of those in posh cars who turn out to be criminals, drug supply chain operators etc etc

I don't think BLM have been hijacked - they've always openly called for political reforms that go against what most people accept as normal but because the message is shielded by saying Black Lives Matter, people fear being critical because it's a statement no one in their right minds would disagree with.
People like to jump on a trendy bandwagon without thinking - even politicians have recently been shamed by this allegiance with BLM - taking a knee for photo ops and telling us "we can do more..." Yes, we can - and we can start by not blindly believing everything that shows up in our SM feed.
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Re: Statues and censoring old songs

Post by Greatkudu »

dronecatcher wrote: 23 Jul 2020, 11:25
Greatkudu wrote: 23 Jul 2020, 10:43 Well only a black woman would know what it's like to suffer racism and black man to, look I hate racism, but ripping down statues and air brushing comedy and history, is not going to solve the problem of racism, it just alianates a large number of society from the cause, racism exists in different ethnic groups, its not black and white, no pun intended, I don't have the answers, but the BLM matter movement has been sabotaged by extremists, who it appears are anti semitic,and if you look in history, we all know what happened, so we need to educate the young in equality as people over a certain age have views you will not change now, just look at the Police in London, still target black men and women in posh cars, so racsim is still endemic in institutions like the army and police, the only hope is education.Lt Kudu getting heavy on Ops.
I agree with most of your points but you don't have to be black to experience racism. My sister lived and worked in South Africa in the 80s and was full of tales about murderous racism within the black community against any minority groups who weren't the right shade of black.
And myself, have witnesses the hatred in Indian and Pakinstani communities against those of the wrong cast - racism is out there but the UK is one of the most tolerant places on Earth but unfortunately you can't legislate against ignorance.

Anti-racists tell us you can't judge a person by the colour of their skin - rightly so but in the same breath judge people by the history of their culture - total hypocrisy.

As for London cops targeting blacks in 'posh' cars - any stats for that? And what would the stats be for convictions of those in posh cars who turn out to be criminals, drug supply chain operators etc etc

I don't think BLM have been hijacked - they've always openly called for political reforms that go against what most people accept as normal but because the message is shielded by saying Black Lives Matter, people fear being critical because it's a statement no one in their right minds would disagree with.
People like to jump on a trendy bandwagon without thinking - even politicians have recently been shamed by this allegiance with BLM - taking a knee for photo ops and telling us "we can do more..." Yes, we can - and we can start by not blindly believing everything that shows up in our SM feed.
Yes agree with most of what you say, its a complex issue, I said about police targeting black people sorry human beings with posh cars as that's what the black community say, it doesnt help when the yardy drug gangs choose BMW and Range Rover sport with blacked out windows as their preferred steed of choice, no racism meant to the blacked out windows reference, I'm paranoid these days by saying the wrong thing, and I have mixed race cousins.Lt Kudu.
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Re: Statues and censoring old songs

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Greatkudu wrote: 23 Jul 2020, 12:39 I'm paranoid these days by saying the wrong thing, and I have mixed race cousins.Lt Kudu.
Yes, sensitivity is half the problem - bad things do happen, people do show ignorance but we can learn from this and know who to avoid in life.
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Re: Statues and censoring old songs

Post by Arthur Streeb-Greebling »

I walked into the chemist the other day and the Pharmacist, a young man asked me “Why are you wearing that t-shirt for?”
I didn’t have to but I explained to him why I was wearing the t-shirt after which that he looked a bit confused and embarrassed.

I was wearing a T-shirt of one of my favourite guitar players - Mr Jimi Hendrix.

I’ve never been asked this before ever and it seemed a bit strange and as if he had a problem with me wearing the t-shirt.
Something’s s not right, the world Is in a strange scary place at the moment.
I’ve recently seen videos of people attacking other people because they were wearing a baseball cap supporting Donald Trump and they actually took the cap off the guys head and wouldn’t give it back.

I’m not a huge fan of Trump but people should be allowed to wear what they like and snatching and stealing a cap off another persons head is inexcusable.

No doubt they think what they did is right but as Ricky Gervais said - “ Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right”
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Re: Statues and censoring old songs

Post by dronecatcher »

Arthur Streeb-Greebling wrote: 23 Jul 2020, 14:31 I walked into the chemist the other day and the Pharmacist, a young man asked me “Why are you wearing that t-shirt for?”
I didn’t have to but I explained to him why I was wearing the t-shirt after which that he looked a bit confused and embarrassed.
I was wearing a T-shirt of one of my favourite guitar players - Mr Jimi Hendrix.
I'm guessing he thought you were 'appropriating black culture' - the moral equivalent of shoot first - don't even bother asking questions.

Stealing baseball caps is tip of the iceberg - if you want to wade through effluent the web is full of people being assaulted or defamed for having a different opinion.
Last edited by dronecatcher on 24 Jul 2020, 17:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Statues and censoring old songs

Post by aldinblack »


Arthur Streeb-Greebling wrote:I walked into the chemist the other day and the Pharmacist, a young man asked me “Why are you wearing that t-shirt for?”
I didn’t have to but I explained to him why I was wearing the t-shirt after which that he looked a bit confused and embarrassed.

I was wearing a T-shirt of one of my favourite guitar players - Mr Jimi Hendrix.

I’ve never been asked this before ever and it seemed a bit strange and as if he had a problem with me wearing the t-shirt.
Something’s s not right, the world Is in a strange scary place at the moment.
I’ve recently seen videos of people attacking other people because they were wearing a baseball cap supporting Donald Trump and they actually took the cap off the guys head and wouldn’t give it back.

I’m not a huge fan of Trump but people should be allowed to wear what they like and snatching and stealing a cap off another persons head is inexcusable.

No doubt they think what they did is right but as Ricky Gervais said - “ Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right”
this is interesting about your t shirt. After explaining it to him did you think of asking him why he wanted to know? It would have interesting to hear his answer to that..

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Re: Statues and censoring old songs

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dronecatcher wrote: 22 Jul 2020, 15:58 I don't think anyone here said racism, discrimination and prejudice don't exist though
No, you all seem to think 'It's not that bad here' but that is not true. You are shielded from it by your privilege of being the racial majority. Just because it's not a problem for you personally doesn't mean it's not a problem.
dronecatcher wrote: 22 Jul 2020, 15:58and experience of any of those are not just the preserve of black women.
Obviously. It is simply the best example, being the direct opposite of white man. I know racism is present across many races and cultures. The problem is that both in the UK and the USA, society is deliberately set to give white males the greatest advantages, and when that is questioned the beneficiaries of these advantages usually get their hackles up :-x

It's irrational thinking based upon the incorrect assumption that it's a zero sum game.
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