Knee jerk reactions to the terrorist attacks in Paris

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kincajou
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Re: Knee jerk reactions to the terrorist attacks in Paris

Post by kincajou »

iain wrote:
kincajou wrote:
iain wrote:Isis are not Muslims....

Good grief.
A wolf in sheep's clothing is not a sheep.
A Muslim following the demands of his Islamic holy book to the letter is a Muslim, no matter how uncomfortable to fact is to acknowledge. Wishing he'd behave otherwise because it would help you deal with the hard facts doesn't change a thing.
Isis don't follow the Qur'an to the letter, that's the problem. They (radical preachers - nutters) take Qur'anic verses and Hadith sayings out of context & 'interpret' them out of all proportion to suit their extremist political agenda, whilst at the same time conveniently ignoring other verses in context that true Muslims follow, for example 'there is no compulsion in religion'. They then use their charismatic powers of persuasion to brainwash vulnerable & alienated followers into doing their dirty work as terrorists. That they label themselves as 'Islamic state' doesn't mean they have anything to do with true Islam apart from the name, hence my 'wolf in sheep's clothing' analogy.
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Stevie.T-'up north'
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Re: Knee jerk reactions to the terrorist attacks in Paris

Post by Stevie.T-'up north' »

jonimac wrote:Steve

I am sorry (too) but you somehow think your opinion is infallible. It is not. Can you accept that?
Other people have a different opinion from you, and no matter how much you think you are right, you are not.
You are just another person on this website with an opinion.
Your contributions are considered and from the heart. So are others. So to dismiss others who write using less viceiferous language is something I find unacceptable. I have read your thoughts before about the Syria problem and what I object to more than anything is your firm belief that what you are writing is the only way to think about these events.
In trying to force your view upon others, regardless of the good intentions you feel are driving them, can you not see how that can actually alienate people?
I sat up last night watching the terrible events in Paris and wondered how people could do that in the name of religion.
Is religion about saying you are from a particular faith, or is it actually living according to that faith?
Kincajou's (and friend's) contribution may not fit in with your perception of the events of the last year but they are just as valid as yours.
Any solution to this disaster that involves further innocent loss of life surely deserves full consideration rather than an angry (knee jerk) demand to send in Yanks, Russians, everyone to ISIS strongholds - wherever they are ?
Jonimac, my opinion is based on fact, so why can't YOU accept that? Disagree? Well tell me then, tell us all which part of my response to Kincajou's post isn't factually correct I'm all ears, or are you another blinkered individual who doesn't believe ISIS are Muslim?

It's interesting to see that yet again on this forum, any views that differ from the left are singled out for criticism but again with contradiction. You say that everyone's entitled to their own point of view but then proceed to state mine as being wrong. Hmmmmm, see the idiocy in that? Isn't that the very thing you're accusing me of here? Pot, kettle, black springs to mind. If you truly believe in freedom of opinion then why slate mine and not others?? Is it simply because mine differs from yours? Clearly so. I don't see you slating comments on the other side of the argument and defending MY right to air my views.

Another point Joni, and I quote - 'So to dismiss others who write using less veceiferous (vociferous I think you mean) language is something I find unacceptable'. Oh really, I dismiss them do I? I think you'll find I respond to them, just like you have to mine. Seriously, you really ought to practice what you preach. Oh and as for 'trying to force my opinion on others', I'm simply doing what everyone else does - stating my opinion - the very thing you proclaim each of us have the right to do. So by doing that I could actually 'alienate people' could I? Wow Joni, now who's being on the far right!? In other words you're warning me to shut up, keep my opinions to myself otherwise people wont speak to me. VERY interesting, not that I actually give a fuck.

Want me to continue pulling apart your logic? Very well, I will. 'Kincajou's contribution may not fit in with your perception of the events of the last year but they are just as valid as yours'. Really?, well doesn't that work both ways? Oh come on now Joni, surely you remember what you said about people's right of opinion. Said the same to Kincajou yet?

'Any solution to this disaster that involves further innocent loss of life surely deserves full consideration rather than an angry (knee jerk) demand to send in Yanks, Russians, everyone to ISIS strongholds - wherever they are?'. Do you honestly not realise how long this has been going on? Do you not understand that years of 'consideration' have already passed while thousands continue to die? Do you not hear the millions of voices worldwide saying enough is enough, just like the French were last night? These murderers can't, and won't, be reasoned with so what the hell are we supposed to do? Do we let them continue murdering innocent defenceless people or does the world unite to eradicate this evil? Yes the demand's angry alright, but I guarantee it's no 'knee jerk' reaction. Try selling that to Lee Rigby's family or the families of the slain Parisians. All I can say is thank God we didn't have people like you in power at the outbreak of WW2, otherwise millions of others would've lost their lives while you just sat back and 'considered'.

Finally, I'll return to your point about me 'alienating people'. Well, I assure you Joni that my views are shared with plenty of others on here so don't believe they aren't just because others aren't as vociferous (that's vociferous) as me. If I was on Facebook, no doubt you'd be telling our mutual friends to 'de-friend' me simply because my personal views differ from yours. In the future, I suggest you read your post prior to submitting because on this occasion you've made yourself look a fool.
Last edited by Stevie.T-'up north' on 15 Nov 2015, 17:11, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Knee jerk reactions to the terrorist attacks in Paris

Post by unbroken69 »

Stevie when you write "any views that differ from the left". what on earth are you talking about? The attacks in Paris were hardly a result of a left - right paradigm. Furthermore the condemnation of the attacks have been largely universal in that respect. There are many libertarians who lean to the right who're abhored by some of the knee - jerk reactions to the murders and the eagerness with which people point the finger of blame at the refugee crisis. It's crass and opportunistic for those who use the slaughter as a prop to support their pre-conceived view of the World or to bang their favourite drum.

Mind you I also want to dissect Kincajou's point of view as well as I also find it knee-jerk to a certain degree. I will when I get the time.
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Re: Knee jerk reactions to the terrorist attacks in Paris

Post by Rockula »

The terrorists may call themselves Muslim and believe they are Muslim no matter how much they distort the Quran.
People have been distorting all faiths for centuries to excuse horrific acts and wars.

However, one of the security guards at the Stade de France who stopped the suicide bomber getting inside was also a Muslim, just doing his job, protecting people and stopping the death toll in that explosion being much higher.

So I can't blame all Muslims for the acts of a deluded minority.
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Re: Knee jerk reactions to the terrorist attacks in Paris

Post by Stevie.T-'up north' »

unbroken69 wrote:Stevie when you write "any views that differ from the left". what on earth are you talking about? The attacks in Paris were hardly a result of a left - right paradigm. Furthermore the condemnation of the attacks have been largely universal in that respect. There are many libertarians who lean to the right who're abhored by some of the knee - jerk reactions to the murders and the eagerness with which people point the finger of blame at the refugee crisis. It's crass and opportunistic for those who use the slaughter as a prop to support their pre-conceived view of the World or to bang their favourite drum.

Mind you I also want to dissect Kincajou's point of view as well as I also find it knee-jerk to a certain degree. I will when I get the time.
I never said, or implied, that the attacks in Paris were as a result of left wing politics. Also I would NEVER, EVER use such an atrocity to 'bang my favourite drum', so I'm hoping that wasn't aimed at me. My reference to the left was regarding how we approach this problem. People need to realise that Utopia will never exist.
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Re: Knee jerk reactions to the terrorist attacks in Paris

Post by Stevie.T-'up north' »

Rockula wrote:The terrorists may call themselves Muslim and believe they are Muslim no matter how much they distort the Quran.
People have been distorting all faiths for centuries to excuse horrific acts and wars.

However, one of the security guards at the Stade de France who stopped the suicide bomber getting inside was also a Muslim, just doing his job, protecting people and stopping the death toll in that explosion being much higher.

So I can't blame all Muslims for the acts of a deluded minority.
Rockula. I've lost count of how many times I've said this on here. No-one's saying that all Muslims are to blame.
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Re: Knee jerk reactions to the terrorist attacks in Paris

Post by kincajou »

to Stevie.T-'up north':

You really haven't got a clue, have you? Well let me tell you. I have no problem with people who disagree with what I post. It's the way that YOU in particular disagree that really pisses me off - and others it seems. Not just jonimac on this thread, but plenty elsewhere who you have wound up and alienated.

You come across like a pub 'I know-it all' bore, a school swot who likes to point out their superior knowledge and ability to argue to everyone, with a smug grin on their face. In short the sort of person others seek to ignore. Sure, there's nothing wrong with healthy, heated debate, but when your rants descends into bullying, that's when I switch off. It's why I didn't bother responding to your total dismissal to my thread opener last night.

Your attack against jonimac's strong, yet reasonable comments about your behaviour towards me and others who don't agree with you is ridiculous. It sought not to offer a constructive criticism of what we say, but sinks to the depths of being intensely patronising. Just read back on the way you use phrases like 'Hmmmmm, see the idiocy in that?' or 'Do you not realise / understand / hear' in quick succession, or 'and I quote...'. I can almost picture you wagging your finger right in our faces. The way you then correct the spelling of 'vociferous', not once, but twice, is, frankly, pathetic. No-one likes a spelling nazi. The thing about such pedants is that they like it known that they are perfect yet always fall into the trap of making mistakes themselves. In the first paragraph of your response to jonimac, shouldn't there be a question mark after the word 'correct'? How small-minded of me to point that out. But - that's what you do.

If you run to form, no doubt you will respond by trying to pick apart every single thing I've said. Go ahead, do your worst, but I couldn't give a flying one. You've now succeeded in alienating me to the extent that after posting this, I am no longer going to reply to anything you say. I suspect others think similarly. I know I'm not perfect, far from it, but I can accept that. The way you argue against those who do not exactly share your world view and the way you use aggressive keyboard warrior tactics suggests that you think you are perfect. You're not. I'm so glad I don't know you in the real world.

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Re: Knee jerk reactions to the terrorist attacks in Paris

Post by carlowe »

kincajou wrote:Tired of arguing. Came across this on Facebook. Shocking & self explanatory. Written by a Lebanese resident.

73 Palestinians were killed by Israel in October alone. Silence.

All this was written by my dear Lebanese friend Roua Naboulsi; she summed my thoughts in details. I pray and hope peace and justice will prevail worldwide without any selectivity.
The majority of the 73 killed as they stabbed or drove their cars into innocent civilians.

So easy to have such a myopic, one sided narrative
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Re: Knee jerk reactions to the terrorist attacks in Paris

Post by Stevie.T-'up north' »

Oh here we go again!
Last edited by Stevie.T-'up north' on 15 Nov 2015, 19:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Knee jerk reactions to the terrorist attacks in Paris

Post by Stevie.T-'up north' »

kincajou wrote:to Stevie.T-'up north':

You really haven't got a clue, have you? Well let me tell you. I have no problem with people who disagree with what I post. It's the way that YOU in particular disagree that really pisses me off - and others it seems. Not just jonimac on this thread, but plenty elsewhere who you have wound up and alienated.

You come across like a pub 'I know-it all' bore, a school swot who likes to point out their superior knowledge and ability to argue to everyone, with a smug grin on their face. In short the sort of person others seek to ignore. Sure, there's nothing wrong with healthy, heated debate, but when your rants descends into bullying, that's when I switch off. It's why I didn't bother responding to your total dismissal to my thread opener last night.

Your attack against jonimac's strong, yet reasonable comments about your behaviour towards me and others who don't agree with you is ridiculous. It sought not to offer a constructive criticism of what we say, but sinks to the depths of being intensely patronising. Just read back on the way you use phrases like 'Hmmmmm, see the idiocy in that?' or 'Do you not realise / understand / hear' in quick succession, or 'and I quote...'. I can almost picture you wagging your finger right in our faces. The way you then correct the spelling of 'vociferous', not once, but twice, is, frankly, pathetic. No-one likes a spelling nazi. The thing about such pedants is that they like it known that they are perfect yet always fall into the trap of making mistakes themselves. In the first paragraph of your response to jonimac, shouldn't there be a question mark after the word 'correct'? How small-minded of me to point that out. But - that's what you do.

If you run to form, no doubt you will respond by trying to pick apart every single thing I've said. Go ahead, do your worst, but I couldn't give a flying one. You've now succeeded in alienating me to the extent that after posting this, I am no longer going to reply to anything you say. I suspect others think similarly. I know I'm not perfect, far from it, but I can accept that. The way you argue against those who do not exactly share your world view and the way you use aggressive keyboard warrior tactics suggests that you think you are perfect. You're not. I'm so glad I don't know you in the real world.

No-one likes a smart arse bully.
To Kincajou

So I haven't got a clue have I? Says an utter and total idiot who doesn't actually realise that ISIS consist of Muslims. Hello????? Anybody home????? Oh and please note the ? at the end of my first sentence. Is that patronising enough for you??

So you don't like the way I disagree with you eh? Awww di-fucking-dums! Grow you some balls you blubbering prick. And as for me alienating people on an internet forum, oh my!, what is one to do!?

Now let me address the 'pub I know it all bore'. (Please note, no hyphen required). Your post almost made me doze off. Jeez, that poor Lebanese girl must be desperate for friendship! Can't she find a camel to adopt?

With regard to my rants descending into 'bullying', again, grow some fucking balls! I can imagine the kind of kid you were, running along to teacher when little Jimmy popped your balloon.

What's next? Oh yes, my 'attack' against Joni's comments. Am I allowed to use the same phrase thrice here? Fuck it, i will... GROW SOME BALLS! Seriously how old are you Kinca, 12?? Strongly worded debate maybe but certainly not an 'attack'. Granted, I might use a hint of sarcasm every now and then but what was it Oscar Wilde said?... "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence". Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, it appears you could be right about that superior knowledge you mention!

Ahh, time for a quote i think! (Oooh I bet you're raging now aren't ya!). 'The way you argue against those who do not exactly share your world view and the way you use aggressive keyboard warrior tactics suggests that you think you are perfect'. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, now let me tell you something here Kinca. You might just learn something. Arguments require two or more individuals who do not share the same view, and so on that count your Honour, we're both as guilty as sin. 'Aggressive keyboard warrior tactics'? Does that include your little cyber friends labeling me a 'neo Nazi'? You clearly have double standards there and your post stinks of it - criticising me for the very same thing that you're now doing here yourself - oh and with personal insult too! What were you saying about 'constructive' criticism and 'bullying'??? Well, if you really want to insult me Kinca and not be one of those 'keyboard warriors', then I'll gladly offer you the opportunity to try doing that in person. Believe me, I'm more than up for the challenge.

Like another forum member has pointed out, maybe the reason why the likes of you become so annoyed at me is because I fight my corner and not just follow the mainstream. When I find ridiculous untruths/contradictions within the comments you make I'm not afraid to challenge them, and let's face it, YOUR posts are easy prey. But hey, isn't that what debate's all about? If you don't like it Kinca, or are way too sensitive to handle a little sarcasm or the occasional patronising comment, then i suggest you (should i?, oh go on then...) grow some balls and fuck off. Your character's clearly too fragile to handle matters such as these, so maybe you'll be doing yourself a favour. Honestly, a grown man getting upset about the 'way' I disagree and the fact that I said 'Do you not realise/understand/hear' in succession! Oh dear!

Yes you're right, we don't know one another in the real world, thank my Christian God, as I'd get bored with babysitting you. Now run along, carry on trying to turn people against me and keep on stirring that shit. Someday, I might just shove it down your throat.

Do let me know if those testies start to sprout!
Last edited by Stevie.T-'up north' on 15 Nov 2015, 19:59, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Knee jerk reactions to the terrorist attacks in Paris

Post by jonimac »

Steve

If you bothered to actually take in what I write, you would find at no point have I challenged your opinion.
Rather your style of posting on this forum and your complete dismissal of other people's perfectly valid opinions.

Thanks for your lecture on East West relations and the speculation on how I would respond to Nazis.
No basis in fact of course, as as you know fuck all about me, why don't you just keep that to yourself ?

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Re: Knee jerk reactions to the terrorist attacks in Paris

Post by Ravenette »

Now now children, let's stop all this bickering. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and this is what a forum is for, to express that opinion.

BUT I think we can all agree on this:

What has happened is unacceptable in ANY country - be it East or West. These people who are carrying out these barbaric, mindless attacks need to be stopped. Disagreeing on social media about who they are or where they come from is irrelevant.

At the end of the day, all that is important is that the Governments HAVE to address this fact and make plans to do something to end this. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Hopefully, this post will actually unite all those bickering about the hows, wheres and whyfors, and agree on a common ground.

THIS HAS TO BE STOPPED.

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