Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

JJ Burnel, ...., Baz Warne, Jim Macaulay.

Moderator: StanInBlack

Post Reply
User avatar
Josh
Ugly
Ugly
Posts: 1300
Joined: 02 Feb 2011, 13:35

Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by Josh »

jetblacksdad wrote: 16 Sep 2021, 09:36 Rather than go into the songs ad nauseum, looking at it as a whole I think it is a great record. It is a huge improvement on Giants.
This, 100%
Never say goodbye,
For we'll all be with you someday,
Fond adieus but never say goodbye
Jon the Impaler
The Raven
The Raven
Posts: 2760
Joined: 25 Jan 2006, 18:59
Location: Essex

Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by Jon the Impaler »

StanInBlack wrote: 15 Sep 2021, 21:41
Jon the Impaler wrote: 15 Sep 2021, 20:29 It's a shame when something has been anticipated for 9 years and it then does nothing .I've been waiting 9 years to eradicate the Giants memory , luckily for the most part it's done it for me. Like I have said though , you can't please all the people all the time . I would rather the band go out on this than Giants ......and my thoughts on that one over time haven't got better .
I do think it's a better record than Giants, which didn't meet the standard I would have expected from the band coming after records like Norfolk Coast and Suite XVI. Dark Matters doesn't reach that standard either - and it certainly doesn't meet the level of expectations I had given that it's been almost a decade in the making - but songwriting-wise it clears the pitifully low bar set by Giants, even if in terms of musicianship it sadly remains the last time you got to hear the combination of Black/Burnel/Greenfield in action. It bears repeating, but Jet is sorely missed on Dark Matters - with each member of the definitive Black/Burnel/Cornwell/Greenfield that the band loses, the more the band loses part of its unique chemistry, identity and soul.
I think the problem (?) With this one is it makes no attempt to be like an old Stranglers sound , in the same way WIR was .NC and Suite all had moments of retro Stranglers , and I loved those for that , overall both were as good as we could expect at this stage of the bands career .......they are never going to be as creative or brilliant , or have idea's like those early days , it was a unique combination .They have sort of gone with similar themes of political observation on Water and White Stallion as Shah Shah , Vietnamerica, Bear Cage and it's nice to see that , it's a bit more imaginative than a song about driving around Belgium 😁. Said elsewhere , I like this one , it's not typical Stranglers though there are two too slow or accoustic for my liking , would say it's a 7/10 where you would give the the first 4 albums 9ish , NC and Suite something like 8 , in perspective Giants for me would be a 3-4, it's that bad imo .
I don't know with this one if it will grow more , or once the euphoria has died down it will go the way of the last Damned one and I will soon find it boring.....not a bad one , but just boring ( The Damned one that is ) . I would still rate Relentless as the best post Hugh song with maybe Time to Die second, Big Thing , Norfolk Coast , Spectre, Sinister , Coup, Still Life then the best on this Water or White Stallion. I really don't get the fuss about Breathe , slow and too long , almost begging to be accoustic or jazz.....must go wash my mouth out for uttering those two words .
All quiet ..........
Greatkudu
Man Of The Earth
Man Of The Earth
Posts: 6501
Joined: 12 May 2010, 09:58

Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by Greatkudu »

Jon the Impaler wrote: 16 Sep 2021, 15:28
StanInBlack wrote: 15 Sep 2021, 21:41
Jon the Impaler wrote: 15 Sep 2021, 20:29 It's a shame when something has been anticipated for 9 years and it then does nothing .I've been waiting 9 years to eradicate the Giants memory , luckily for the most part it's done it for me. Like I have said though , you can't please all the people all the time . I would rather the band go out on this than Giants ......and my thoughts on that one over time haven't got better .
I do think it's a better record than Giants, which didn't meet the standard I would have expected from the band coming after records like Norfolk Coast and Suite XVI. Dark Matters doesn't reach that standard either - and it certainly doesn't meet the level of expectations I had given that it's been almost a decade in the making - but songwriting-wise it clears the pitifully low bar set by Giants, even if in terms of musicianship it sadly remains the last time you got to hear the combination of Black/Burnel/Greenfield in action. It bears repeating, but Jet is sorely missed on Dark Matters - with each member of the definitive Black/Burnel/Cornwell/Greenfield that the band loses, the more the band loses part of its unique chemistry, identity and soul.
I think the problem (?) With this one is it makes no attempt to be like an old Stranglers sound , in the same way WIR was .NC and Suite all had moments of retro Stranglers , and I loved those for that , overall both were as good as we could expect at this stage of the bands career .......they are never going to be as creative or brilliant , or have idea's like those early days , it was a unique combination .They have sort of gone with similar themes of political observation on Water and White Stallion as Shah Shah , Vietnamerica, Bear Cage and it's nice to see that , it's a bit more imaginative than a song about driving around Belgium 😁. Said elsewhere , I like this one , it's not typical Stranglers though there are two too slow or accoustic for my liking , would say it's a 7/10 where you would give the the first 4 albums 9ish , NC and Suite something like 8 , in perspective Giants for me would be a 3-4, it's that bad imo .
I don't know with this one if it will grow more , or once the euphoria has died down it will go the way of the last Damned one and I will soon find it boring.....not a bad one , but just boring ( The Damned one that is ) . I would still rate Relentless as the best post Hugh song with maybe Time to Die second, Big Thing , Norfolk Coast , Spectre, Sinister , Coup, Still Life then the best on this Water or White Stallion. I really don't get the fuss about Breathe , slow and too long , almost begging to be accoustic or jazz.....must go wash my mouth out for uttering those two words .
There are a few songs that sound like the stranglers of old, certain elements but I'm glad they have just done what they wanted to, it's a brave move, but I still think it's a class album that will stand the test of time. Lt Kudu.
User avatar
theraven1979
Maninwhite
Maninwhite
Posts: 36161
Joined: 22 Dec 2001, 11:41
Location: Saltaire
Contact:

Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by theraven1979 »

Put the album on again today and I think I've exhausted it as I pretty much skipped through every track - some of the songs are "fast burners" IMO. I'll give it time before I pick it up again.


Jim
"I bathed in sun and walked in rain
It taught me how to laugh again"
Yanders
The Man They Love To Hate
Posts: 831
Joined: 17 Feb 2018, 12:24

Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by Yanders »

I'm over this song. It will sound good live, but the bits the stranglers added aren't good, and bazs vocals grate after a few plays.

I don't know why they felt the need to tart about with it the way they did.
Bear Cage
Ugly
Ugly
Posts: 1579
Joined: 28 Jun 2007, 23:35
Location: London/Kent

Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by Bear Cage »

Yanders wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 09:55 I'm over this song. It will sound good live, but the bits the stranglers added aren't good, and bazs vocals grate after a few plays.

I don't know why they felt the need to tart about with it the way they did.
Because, compared to the original Disciples version, they’ve made it better and more Stranglers sounding. It’s not the best track on DM, but still very good.
Then I got tired of counting all of these blessings, and then I just got tired.
Ruby
Ugly
Ugly
Posts: 1179
Joined: 23 Mar 2014, 15:56

Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by Ruby »

Yanders wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 09:55 I'm over this song. It will sound good live, but the bits the stranglers added aren't good, and bazs vocals grate after a few plays.

I don't know why they felt the need to tart about with it the way they did.
Agreed.It should've been left as it was.I suppose it becomes a joint effort between the Stranglers and Seamarks this way instead of an out and out cover, which it still is.Full writing credit should've gone to Mathew and I would be a bit peeved if I were him.
Greatkudu
Man Of The Earth
Man Of The Earth
Posts: 6501
Joined: 12 May 2010, 09:58

Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by Greatkudu »

Bear Cage wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 11:48
Yanders wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 09:55 I'm over this song. It will sound good live, but the bits the stranglers added aren't good, and bazs vocals grate after a few plays.

I don't know why they felt the need to tart about with it the way they did.
Because, compared to the original Disciples version, they’ve made it better and more Stranglers sounding. It’s not the best track on DM, but still very good.
I love the song but possibly my least favourite track on the new album, I must have mellowed as I prefer the softer tracks like Breathe, Baz showing his softer side, he usually Bisted and Twitter, joking. Lt Kudu :smt005
Greatkudu
Man Of The Earth
Man Of The Earth
Posts: 6501
Joined: 12 May 2010, 09:58

Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by Greatkudu »

Ruby wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 12:07
Yanders wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 09:55 I'm over this song. It will sound good live, but the bits the stranglers added aren't good, and bazs vocals grate after a few plays.

I don't know why they felt the need to tart about with it the way they did.
Agreed.It should've been left as it was.I suppose it becomes a joint effort between the Stranglers and Seamarks this way instead of an out and out cover, which it still is.Full writing credit should've gone to Mathew and I would be a bit peeved if I were him.
I can't speak for Matthew but I'm sure he's happy with the situation and it will get more people listening to the original, so it's a win win all round. Lt Kudu.
droopsnoot
ManinBlack
ManinBlack
Posts: 3429
Joined: 27 Jan 2004, 17:28
Location: Cheshire

Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by droopsnoot »

Greatkudu wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 12:10
Ruby wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 12:07
Yanders wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 09:55 I'm over this song. It will sound good live, but the bits the stranglers added aren't good, and bazs vocals grate after a few plays.

I don't know why they felt the need to tart about with it the way they did.
Agreed.It should've been left as it was.I suppose it becomes a joint effort between the Stranglers and Seamarks this way instead of an out and out cover, which it still is.Full writing credit should've gone to Mathew and I would be a bit peeved if I were him.
I can't speak for Matthew but I'm sure he's happy with the situation and it will get more people listening to the original, so it's a win win all round. Lt Kudu.
He did post on Facebook that he was happy with the agreement for the credits.
http://www.firenza.net - my homage to a seventies Vauxhall
Arthur Streeb-Greebling
Man Of The Earth
Man Of The Earth
Posts: 6352
Joined: 25 Nov 2005, 01:00
Location: All Roads Roam To Leeds

Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by Arthur Streeb-Greebling »

Not sure about some of the vocal effects now on DM tbh, almost entering Do You Believe by Cher territory.
Last edited by Arthur Streeb-Greebling on 17 Sep 2021, 13:40, edited 1 time in total.
Greatkudu
Man Of The Earth
Man Of The Earth
Posts: 6501
Joined: 12 May 2010, 09:58

Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by Greatkudu »

droopsnoot wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 12:40
Greatkudu wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 12:10
Ruby wrote: 17 Sep 2021, 12:07 Agreed.It should've been left as it was.I suppose it becomes a joint effort between the Stranglers and Seamarks this way instead of an out and out cover, which it still is.Full writing credit should've gone to Mathew and I would be a bit peeved if I were him.
I can't speak for Matthew but I'm sure he's happy with the situation and it will get more people listening to the original, so it's a win win all round. Lt Kudu.
He did post on Facebook that he was happy with the agreement for the credits.
Well I don't do Facebook but thats what I thought, more people will listen to the original now, I know I did, and one of his fave bands used his song, so what's not to like. Lt Kudu.
Post Reply