Black or White...

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Black or White

Black Side
16
29%
White Side
40
71%
 
Total votes: 56

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Yukio!
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Re: Black or White...

Post by Yukio! » 17 Nov 2012, 03:40

jason wrote:The White side is pure Stranglers perfection. 8)
Nearly as perfect as the black side :smt023

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Re: Black or White...

Post by aldinblack » 17 Nov 2012, 09:01

there is no other track like Do You Wanna and the way it leads into Death & Night & Blood, apart from Genetix maybe.

Sheer musical masterclass, wish they'd done more of it..
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elvisintheclouds
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Re: Black or White...

Post by elvisintheclouds » 17 Nov 2012, 13:32

aldinblack wrote:there is no other track like Do You Wanna and the way it leads into Death & Night & Blood, apart from Genetix maybe.

Sheer musical masterclass, wish they'd done more of it..
Do you Wanna is just the business, short and sweet and then morphs into another classic track, it just keeps on giving 8)
Thank you very much
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Re: Black or White...

Post by gjinblack » 17 Nov 2012, 13:44

Because I'm a trainspotter, I've burned a cd with the black side first and changed the two white side tracks back around.
It does make for a different listening experience.
Although I love the black side I think the white side just nicks it for me.
euromanc-ometh

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elvisintheclouds
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Re: Black or White...

Post by elvisintheclouds » 17 Nov 2012, 14:30

gjinblack wrote:Because I'm a trainspotter, I've burned a cd with the black side first and changed the two white side tracks back around.
It does make for a different listening experience.
Although I love the black side I think the white side just nicks it for me.
Good idea, might do that myself for the car. As 'aldinblack' said earlier I've been listening to it in that order since I was a kid - so it just seems wrong the other way round 8)
Thank you very much
EiTC

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dan-electro
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Re: Black or White...

Post by dan-electro » 17 Nov 2012, 17:48

The US grey marble release had the labels coloured the wrong way, white side was a black label with white writing and the black side had a white label with black writing total opposite to the UK release. 8)
Hugh - "We had gangs of skinheads coming along trying to cause problems and stuff"
Rick Wakeman - "How did you deal with it?"
Hugh - "Our bass player used to jump off the stage and beat the shit out of them!"

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Re: Black or White...

Post by clutchingmyteddybear » 17 Nov 2012, 18:31

elvisintheclouds wrote:
s.harris wrote:White side for me, but i think the LP should be played in this order


1."Curfew"‡(3:10)
2."Threatened"‡ (3:30)
3."Do You Wanna"§ (2:38)
4."Death and Night and Blood (Yukio)"‡ (2:50)
5."In the Shadows"† (4:15)
6."Enough Time"† (4:16)White side
7."Tank"† (2:54)
8."Nice 'N' Sleazy"† (3:11)
9."Outside Tokyo"† (2:06)
10."Sweden (All Quiet on the Eastern Front)"† (2:47)
11."Hey! (Rise of the Robots)"† (2:13)
12."Toiler on the Sea"† (5:23)

Finishing with Toiler, i think when it was released on CD they got the running order wrong :lol: :lol:

All the best

Shauninblack
Seconded.
Spot on!
Always played it that way on Vinyl, when I got the CD it seemed wrong and having Robots and ITS in the wrong order was very disorientating... Plus finishing with Toiler the ultimate closer, one of their greatest moments (even if I did choose Black). And, opening with the awe inspiring Curfew too!
Always played white side first. Haven't got vinyl to hand. In the attic but pretty sure the code on the white side ends with A and Black side is B. also Jet on BBC Radio 6 talked of Tank as the first track. I will try playing in this order to break the habit of a lifetime, well 34 years anyway.
how did I get down here, well it's a long story

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Re: Black or White...

Post by jason » 17 Nov 2012, 19:16

A lot of credit must go to Martin Rushent for this album. The sound is perfect. Such a shame a lot of the later albums don't have such brilliant production.

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Re: Black or White...

Post by StanInBlack » 17 Nov 2012, 21:32

jason wrote:A lot of credit must go to Martin Rushent for this album. The sound is perfect. Such a shame a lot of the later albums don't have such brilliant production.
Indeed! He helped to get some incredible performances out of The Stranglers on this release. Although, having said that, it would be absolutely unfair to give ALL of the credit to Martin Rushent for the way this album sounds - not only was he given the raw material to begin with (the way that The Stranglers naturally play, and the combination of the equipment the band were using at this time - I'm thinking JJ's bass amp and Dave's combination of keyboards including the 'classic' Hohner Cembalet/Hammond Organ + synthesizer combination), but the album also had a great engineer in Alan Winstanley too, who was JUST as responsible for the sound of the album (if not more, because the engineer focuses/works on the more technical aspects of sound recording) as Martin Rushent was.

Let's not forget that Alan Winstanley had worked with the band long before Martin Rushent had (he engineered Rattus and No More Heroes too), and through working with them on the early demos and suchlike, really understood their sound. He was elevated to 'co-producer' status on The Raven (as well as engineer) after Martin Rushent had decided he no longer wanted to work with the band, and that album sounds just as great. I think The Gospel According To The Meninblack was the last time Alan Winstanley worked with the MKI version of The Stranglers, and I think that was as engineer on one track ('Waiting For The Meninblack') - the band opted to produce that album themselves, with several engineers over the course of the (long) recording process. That album was the debut, I think, of Steve Churchyard, who worked with the band on The Gospel (engineering and mix), La Folie (engineering) and Feline (engineering/co-production). La Folie and Feline, of course, both being mixed by Tony Visconti who is absolutely no slouch in the studio - and neither is Laurie Latham for that matter, who produced and engineered Aural Sculpture.

The production values on the MKI stuff only really take a dip with the last two albums. Mike Kemp (who worked with the band on Dreamtime) wasn't really a producer as such, but still managed to do a fairly decent job considering that he was far from a 'name' producer, and the performances on the recordings were pretty much going to be hampered from the off due to Jet's refusal to play live drums in the studio and the MKI band not really gelling as they once had at that stage of their career (though, in spite of all of that, I really like the album).

Finally then, Roy Thomas Baker. My attitude towards Roy Thomas Baker is that he WAS a phenomenally great producer/engineer who was making an album with a band he honestly shouldn't have been working with. His work on 'Queen II', 'Sheer Heart Attack' and 'A Night At The Opera' (by Queen), which were the albums he "made his name" with, is absolutely stunning. They sound great as well as being extremely technically proficient, and the bombast actually suits Queen - after all, bombast and pomposity were what made that band what they were. Funnily enough, though - he only worked with Queen for a short period of time (between 1973-1975 and again in 1978, but not after that).

By the time Roy Thomas Baker worked with The Stranglers on '10', I actually think that HE himself was "past his prime" as a producer - that album sounds absolutely flat-out fucking terrible. He tried to make the songs sound 'big' and 'epic', but it's a style of production that is very much at odds with what The Stranglers do - it's very ill-fitting. Not to mention that this was the second time that The Stranglers had recorded the album, and relations in the band weren't at their best to say the least, so overall it made for a very very laboured end result.

As for Owen Morris, who the band worked with on the initial '10' sessions - I actually find him frustratingly inconsistent as a producer. Indeed, he went onto big success as a producer after producing 'What's The Story (Morning Glory)?' for Oasis, but I have heard productions by him that I thought were absolutely terrible. His work on the first Ash album ('1977'), in my opinion, is no great shakes (lots of reverb on the drums, ramshackle performances), and his work on the third Oasis album ('Be Here Now') is just terrible and in my opinion just as overproduced as '10' is... I honestly wish I was joking!

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Re: Black or White...

Post by jason » 17 Nov 2012, 22:07

Bloody hell Stan you know your stuff don't you! Great post. 8)

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Re: Black or White...

Post by Fredib » 01 Jan 2013, 13:05

I definitely love "10" ! Well done Roy !

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Re: Black or White...

Post by Burn e 77 » 01 Jan 2013, 19:49

Black and White... aggressive, melodic, interesting time signatures and intrinsic lyrics... a phuqin superb Stranglers album... back in the day me and my mates would spin this LP when we got back from clubbing... we'd still be speedin away till sunrise... and this was the only energetic music that cut the mustard with us... pure sulphate sounds... AND it still sounds great in 2013 8)
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