Dark Matters - Initial Thoughts/Reviews

JJ Burnel, ...., Baz Warne, Jim Macaulay.

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droopsnoot
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Re: Dark Matters - Initial Thoughts/Reviews

Post by droopsnoot »

MiB81 wrote: 19 Sep 2021, 10:51 heard a track on 6 Music the other day, not bad at all.
Oh, they've played a track then, that's good. I wonder which one it was.
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Re: Dark Matters - Initial Thoughts/Reviews

Post by StanInBlack »

droopsnoot wrote: 19 Sep 2021, 18:02
MiB81 wrote: 19 Sep 2021, 10:51 heard a track on 6 Music the other day, not bad at all.
Oh, they've played a track then, that's good. I wonder which one it was.
The still fresh sounding "No More Heroes", probably.
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Re: Dark Matters - Initial Thoughts/Reviews

Post by toilerinblack »

StanInBlack wrote: 18 Sep 2021, 14:47
Bear Cage wrote: 18 Sep 2021, 14:18 However there was a clear decline in output from the Stranglers with Hugh, with increasing numbers of average and less great songs (as they stopped working as a band and increasingly wrote and recorded in isolation, as well as seeming to focus on pop and having hits, which also stopped happening except with covers). That variability continued post Hugh (peeking in my opinion on WIR). But with both Hugh and the Stranglers post his decision to quit, the better albums (e.g. S16, NC, DM) are overall better than the worst of those with Hugh. That doesn’t make those albums (Dreamtime and 10) poor, it just says others are better.
I don't really agree with this as I consider Dreamtime to be up there with their very best albums, I think it's start-to-finish great (starting as it does with the obviously great "Always the Sun" and finishing with the Hugh-era's last true epic in "Too Precious") and there's not a single track on it that I'd want to skip or replace with any of the b-sides of the period. I agree that 10 could have been better, but that was due to a combination of a shit vibe amongst the band members, the fact they had to record the album twice (the second time with an unsuitable producer), and the songwriting members had both gone off the boil (Hugh would get it back on Wired and pretty much stay there, JJ wouldn't truly return to form until "In the End" but he'd continue to be hit and miss). Hugh using up all of his best ideas on Wolf (a vastly superior record to 10) didn't help either. If I found myself having to make a choice between listening to Dreamtime and a post-Hugh Stranglers record, I'd choose Dreamtime without any hesitation or doubt. If I found myself having to make a choice between listening to 10 and any post-Hugh Stranglers record, I'd probably listen to a Hugh solo album.
Agreed,i consider too Dreamtime to be up their amoungst their best with the last true epic of the Hugh era being" Too Precious".Hugh returning to form and staying there with"Wired" i agree again, though i can't really agree with return to form with"In The End" but that's just me and i would listen still listen to 10 regardless as you know because i'm a big 10 fan anyway,i just carried on listening to MK1 & Hugh material post '90 through the MK11 years with a return again with Baz.
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Re: Dark Matters - Initial Thoughts/Reviews

Post by alaninblack »

StanInBlack wrote: 19 Sep 2021, 08:33 Hugh's impassioned vocal delivery on "Ghost Train" is actually quite unique (for him), and that's not even him singing on Nosferatu's title track - that's RW.
Good point Stan. Always forget about that as when it came out I automatically thought it was Hugh and still to this day do. Wired from that album would be a good example of my preference of Hugh singing.
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Re: Dark Matters - Initial Thoughts/Reviews

Post by Bear Cage »

alaninblack wrote: 19 Sep 2021, 23:46
StanInBlack wrote: 19 Sep 2021, 08:33 … that's not even him singing on Nosferatu's title track - that's RW.
Good point Stan. Always forget about that as when it came out I automatically thought it was Hugh and still to this day do. Wired from that album would be a good example of my preference of Hugh singing.
Nosferatu is still my favourite of Hugh’s albums, I think him and Robert really pushed themselves In unusual directions, ending up with a some really great eclectic music.
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Re: Dark Matters - Initial Thoughts/Reviews

Post by alaninblack »

Bear Cage wrote: 19 Sep 2021, 23:55 Nosferatu is still my favourite of Hugh’s albums, I think him and Robert really pushed themselves In unusual directions, ending up with a some really great eclectic music.
Could not agree more. Euroman was defiantly also unusual, but for me Nosferatu was by far superior to JJs solo bash, and it still get a regular play on the old turntable, where as I may just dig out and only play the Freddie single as it has one hell of a bassline.
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Re: Dark Matters - Initial Thoughts/Reviews

Post by Jon the Impaler »

alaninblack wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 23:48
Bear Cage wrote: 19 Sep 2021, 23:55 Nosferatu is still my favourite of Hugh’s albums, I think him and Robert really pushed themselves In unusual directions, ending up with a some really great eclectic music.
Could not agree more. Euroman was defiantly also unusual, but for me Nosferatu was by far superior to JJs solo bash, and it still get a regular play on the old turntable, where as I may just dig out and only play the Freddie single as it has one hell of a bassline.
I like both equally really . They are very different to each other , in fact as solo albums you wouldn't know the two were in the same band .Hugh's has a sort of horror , gothic feel whereas JJ's feels cold war Europe , more of a historic Europe look and sound .
Agree with Stan and others in that Dreamtime was very good , the last great M1 album , a rose between two thorns imo , didn't much like AS and definitely didn't like 10 , though both had their moments .I still feel that most M2 was superior to 10 but the post Hugh peak is still NC and Suite , Dark Matters is a little behind , maybe in that it isn't I any way retro for me , Giants , well that ranks alongside 10 for me , having two of the worst of the bands songs ever AND a bloody jazz track . At least the current one has no jazz and nothing that reaches the bottom of the barrel like ......well , you know .
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Re: Dark Matters - Initial Thoughts/Reviews

Post by toilerinblack »

Jon the Impaler wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 14:32
alaninblack wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 23:48
Bear Cage wrote: 19 Sep 2021, 23:55 Nosferatu is still my favourite of Hugh’s albums, I think him and Robert really pushed themselves In unusual directions, ending up with a some really great eclectic music.
Could not agree more. Euroman was defiantly also unusual, but for me Nosferatu was by far superior to JJs solo bash, and it still get a regular play on the old turntable, where as I may just dig out and only play the Freddie single as it has one hell of a bassline.
I like both equally really . They are very different to each other , in fact as solo albums you wouldn't know the two were in the same band .Hugh's has a sort of horror , gothic feel whereas JJ's feels cold war Europe , more of a historic Europe look and sound .
Agree with Stan and others in that Dreamtime was very good , the last great M1 album , a rose between two thorns imo , didn't much like AS and definitely didn't like 10 , though both had their moments .I still feel that most M2 was superior to 10 but the post Hugh peak is still NC and Suite , Dark Matters is a little behind , maybe in that it isn't I any way retro for me , Giants , well that ranks alongside 10 for me , having two of the worst of the bands songs ever AND a bloody jazz track . At least the current one has no jazz and nothing that reaches the bottom of the barrel like ......well , you know .
Nosferatu is a great album for sure, but it's Guilty by far my favourite,but yes i think too that Nosferatu is a better album than Euroman.
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Re: Dark Matters - Initial Thoughts/Reviews

Post by fuzzguitars »

My thoughts so, far as much as I like Bilko I have no idea what Hugh is trying to achieve. Dark matters however can sit proudly next to the first 4 albums. I didn't see the point of carring on when Hugh left and he is the best singer the band ever had. This new recording has some sublime playing and by the time I heard the jazz trumpet on if somethings goint to kill me I was hooked. It really is the real deal and I couldn't be happier for them. I was the purist regarding the line up, however the fact is Hugh did the right thing in getting out there is no point in passengers when it comes to creativity. It's harsh to critisize but there has been a long run of average recordings, Dark Matters is far from average and there is a great flow to this album. Stand outs for me Water, And if you see Dave, If somethings going to kill me, The Last Man on The Moon, the glorious White Stallion and Breathe. Can we get a 12 " 10 min mix of White stallion (trial by combat version).
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Re: Dark Matters - Initial Thoughts/Reviews

Post by aldinblack »

They have leaned the lessons from Giants. As I anticipated every song on DM has at least decent and even excellent subject matter (well apart from This Song which they didn't write).

You don't have to like them all (I'm not particularly fond of Lines), but each song is saying something. Unlike Giants where some lyrics were just "fills".

As for the musicianship, we'll this is the stranglers we're talking about and it's always very good. Yes even on Giants.
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Re: Dark Matters - Initial Thoughts/Reviews

Post by aldinblack »

fuzzguitars wrote:My thoughts so, far as much as I like Bilko I have no idea what Hugh is trying to achieve. Dark matters however can sit proudly next to the first 4 albums. I didn't see the point of carring on when Hugh left and he is the best singer the band ever had. This new recording has some sublime playing and by the time I heard the jazz trumpet on if somethings goint to kill me I was hooked. It really is the real deal and I couldn't be happier for them. I was the purist regarding the line up, however the fact is Hugh did the right thing in getting out there is no point in passengers when it comes to creativity. It's harsh to critisize but there has been a long run of average recordings, Dark Matters is far from average and there is a great flow to this album. Stand outs for me Water, And if you see Dave, If somethings going to kill me, The Last Man on The Moon, the glorious White Stallion and Breathe. Can we get a 12 " 10 min mix of White stallion (trial by combat version).
I find Bilko a bit weary, it's OK but not sure why everyone rates it that highly. I prefer most other songs on Monster.
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Re: Dark Matters - Initial Thoughts/Reviews

Post by toilerinblack »

fuzzguitars wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 18:38 My thoughts so, far as much as I like Bilko I have no idea what Hugh is trying to achieve. Dark matters however can sit proudly next to the first 4 albums. I didn't see the point of carring on when Hugh left and he is the best singer the band ever had. This new recording has some sublime playing and by the time I heard the jazz trumpet on if somethings goint to kill me I was hooked. It really is the real deal and I couldn't be happier for them. I was the purist regarding the line up, however the fact is Hugh did the right thing in getting out there is no point in passengers when it comes to creativity. It's harsh to critisize but there has been a long run of average recordings, Dark Matters is far from average and there is a great flow to this album. Stand outs for me Water, And if you see Dave, If somethings going to kill me, The Last Man on The Moon, the glorious White Stallion and Breathe. Can we get a 12 " 10 min mix of White stallion (trial by combat version).
What do you mean by what is Hugh trying to achieve?
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