New album confirmed (edit: or is it?)

[theraven1979]

That's the question I always ask. I asked it prior to having that knowledge as well particularly when CDG came out!
He has in the past also alluded to not having the confidence to sing or go it alone.

"The Stranglers" name is a cash cow as well. I genuinely think you could stick the band name on anything and some fans would still follow it sheep like off a cliff edge.

Jim

JJ by his own admission said he pretty much gave up on the band in the 90s particularly the late 90s

So why didn't he call it quits? He could have had an interesting niche career, especially in Europe.
He probably felt he needed to be loyal to Dave and Jet?

[jeanjacketburnel]

JJ might enjoy still enjoy being a Strangler and doesn't want to retire yet.

[ThinkTank]

The point being is that JJ is a democratic and he allows/enjoys everyone to take part in the song writing and doesnt lead the band as a dictatorship. Its why he allowed Paul to behave however he liked on stage even though to me he looked like a 4 year old showing his adoring mum and dad how a rock star should act.

Quite
I'm still baffled as to why all that nonsense was tolerated by senior members of the band.Of course JJ wasn't his Dad but he was his boss,in a way.Anyone who thinks JJ has no influence or say in matters must be very naive indeed.

I was baffled as well but i think it was more of a you have made your bed and now you have to lie in it.
Also at the beginning JJ was very happy with it all he was getting lots of attention and the album In the night charted fairly high. I remember him enthusiastically telling the media he felt like an old dog with a new puppies tail due to Paul's involvement. After the initial start with lots of interest at first it then started to become apparent that the fans were all leaving in their drones . By then they couldn't really change again and the Stranglers have never been good at admitting they were wrong anyway. That's not a critism its more of a necessity in that line of work. Oh JJ was definitely the boss of Paul in the early days of him joining without a doubt.

[ThinkTank]

That's the question I always ask. I asked it prior to having that knowledge as well particularly when CDG came out!
He has in the past also alluded to not having the confidence to sing or go it alone.

"The Stranglers" name is a cash cow as well. I genuinely think you could stick the band name on anything and some fans would still follow it sheep like off a cliff edge.

Jim

JJ by his own admission said he pretty much gave up on the band in the 90s particularly the late 90s

So why didn't he call it quits? He could have had an interesting niche career, especially in Europe.
He probably felt he needed to be loyal to Dave and Jet?

I personally think all of those reasons is why he continued and i think why he's still continuing. He has also mentioned how he looked up to Hugh because he was 2 years older which weirdly is no reason and no relevant age difference after you leave school and beyond the age of 16. I think JJ needs someone maybe anyone to lean on and share the failures as well as the successes with in the band . I think the friendship of Baz has now taken that role with the bike riding and other socialising and that's the JJ comfort level where as going it solo he feels is too risky.

[ThinkTank]

What made The Stranglers was the different characters and all of them had that "something". It's rather unfair to compare the others to teh originals because they are from a different time and place. Living on a packet of stuffing in a shared house travelling round in an ice cream van to badly paid gigs creates something. A bond, an understanding that cannot be broken.

No matter how good a talent you are, coming in to "replace" one of those that has done their graft is going to be an almost impossible.

All the "replacement" Stranglers are talented and great musicians - but have they got that essence? I don't know. We will have to see if and when we get something form this line up. DM was a very strong album with two original members and two lads who had certainly more than proved themselves.

I hope Toby is not just a DG facsimile and that he might add a new dimension. What they cannot do is anything less than DM.

As for a JJ album, I would love that. Always said CDG would have worked better solo. Very different expectations from JJ than The Strangers. Surely some of those 150-400 ideas could work as a solo album.

It will come to no surprise that i don't agree with most of that. But its funny you mentioned Coup De Grace i watched a great JJ solo act he did on you tube i think it was called songs and stories a few years ago now. When he did the song Coup De Grace that song did stop me in my tracks and i thought now this is something really good even though he was only messing about as he sang it i could see the great song there. It made me check out the album but unfortunately that was a disappointment but i can definitely see where you are coming from with how that should have been a solo effort. I think JJ was a more confident artist back then though letting his work speak for him rather than trying to sell an idea about the band. I thought that You Tube footage was an absolute pleasure to watch and its what i expect from JJ .

[ThinkTank]

Please dont take my comments out of context if you are going to be critical of what i say then please show the whole meaning of my comment and not half the story. Thank you evonx 

My pleasure Seriously, i comment on what strikes me and i cannot stand the overload of copy pasting here. Will be careful in the future with your comments.

I'm still baffled as to why all that nonsense was tolerated by senior members of the band

The original three members at least gave the impression they enjoyed the early nineties even if it meant playing smaller venues. PR gave them a new found energy.

ha ha @ My pleasure that did make me laugh. Its easy done i reckon i have done it myself enough times i didn't really mean for my comment to come out as cutting as it did it was just a response from seeing my comment being more unfair than it already was lol. I can make my unfairness go right to the line so going over the line, not even i want that reputation i prefer to keep my reputation inside the narcissist zone

[aldinblack]

That would be something i would like to hear can you imagine something with more experiment and imagination put in to the songs like the Album Fire and Water. That's the sort of thing that would inspire me and i know JJ still has another project like that in him i really don't think i could stomach another DM even if it is just a test listen.

yes but looking at their output, even in recent times, they've never really repeated themselves have they ? DM doesn't really sound like Giants and Giants doesn't really sound like Suite etc...
So I'd be hoping for something different again, with Toby in the mix it just might happen where there'd be something new / more experimental that could make an interesting listen.
I'm not sure what Toby's got in terms "leading or creating a sound" ?
My point is let's see rather than just saying no thanks we don't want anything...

Sent from my moto g62 5G using Tapatalk

I always enjoy your replies and often i can reflect and think again of what i said because of them and certainly your level headed defending of the band is always an enjoyable read and adds a different perspective on the discussion. This time however i think its a really poor point you make and one that sounds like its come straight from the lips of JJ trying to make a justifiable argument to his poor song writing with a band that hasn't produced anything anywhere near as good as it should be.

Firstly the original 4 what ever they wrote no matter how different every album was with out any doubt you knew it was the Stranglers there was absolutely no mistaking of that at all. I have to say though no matter how different they were that special ingredient what ever that is, that true Stranglers sound was always there. In contrast the song writing from the current line up is not only inferior it certainly does not sound anything like the Stranglers anymore the only thing that is recognisable is the name, logo and bass player and that's it. Well actually I'm not even sure i recognise JJ anymore.

Regarding Toby as a brilliant keyboardist........
I had a mate who was a guitarist and a brilliant one at that i used to sit in his room when we were 16 and he would play me Stranglers tracks on his Fender and i can tell you he used to amaze me . He didn't just resemble the Stranglers music when he played songs like Sleazy, Device ,D+N+B, Genetix, NMH and so many more he sounded exactly the same. I was amazed and found myself actually singing along to it as it was so easy to hear. Many years after that and in time what i have learnt about great musicians that can copy other peoples work is that they are 10 to a penny. I have known so many brilliant musicians as friends from work and social and there are so many musicians that are brilliant but what most of them all share and to my friends admittance as well they all cant write a original great classic song. A great song writer is so rare they come very far and few between and anything that you would want that may equal or better Hugh period of songs is never going to happen. If there was anything genius about Toby in song writing we would have heard about him already. Toby was right place at the right time with his YouTube examples that JJ could watch easily from at home and probably saved JJ having to audition lots of keyboardists so got the job. Obviously not without the added BS of he's so like Dave we tapped his chest as we thought he was in there blah blah blah BS

If the band came up trumps i will be really pleased to hear and admit i was wrong but its not going to happen because if it was going to it would have happened by now in that 30 odd years since Hugh has left.
I cant help thinking JJ is being distracted or held back by the rest of the band so a solo project for me would be a far better prospect but that's if JJ can write great tunes anymore i am not fully sure he can i am just hopeful to get one last great JJ solo album again.

Well I don't really understand what you mean cause I never suggested that JJs and / or other members current song writing is anywhere near as good as the original 4 used to be.

Nor that Toby is a brilliant keyboardist.
And yes I think I understand the difference between a good musician who can play well and copy stuff, and a creative force like the 4 original Stranglers all were.

My only point is that we don't really know anything about Toby's creative talents - if any - and we won't know until they make some new songs with him.

Sent from my moto g62 5G using Tapatalk

[markorbit]

I don't know what makes anyone think a JJ solo album will somehow be better than a new Stranglers one

The proof is in the pudding - Jour Parfait was much better than 10 or even Dreamtime. More interesting songwriting (except for Too Precious I suppose) and overall mood and production.

Whether Un Jour Parfait is better than 10 or Dreamtime is entirely subjective. Whilst I might agree I bet someone like Stan wouldn't. Dreamtime is the nearest in the timeline to UJP.

With hindsight I think by the mid-late 80s the band had fragmented, were on autopilot and doing what they thought they should be doing to shift units. A solo album was an outlet for different ideas and JJ & Dave could immerse themselves a bit more without concerning themselves with brand Stranglers. I don't see that differential today just as I don't see the 1988 JJ.

[ThinkTank]

yes but looking at their output, even in recent times, they've never really repeated themselves have they ? DM doesn't really sound like Giants and Giants doesn't really sound like Suite etc...
So I'd be hoping for something different again, with Toby in the mix it just might happen where there'd be something new / more experimental that could make an interesting listen.
I'm not sure what Toby's got in terms "leading or creating a sound" ?
My point is let's see rather than just saying no thanks we don't want anything...

Sent from my moto g62 5G using Tapatalk

I always enjoy your replies and often i can reflect and think again of what i said because of them and certainly your level headed defending of the band is always an enjoyable read and adds a different perspective on the discussion. This time however i think its a really poor point you make and one that sounds like its come straight from the lips of JJ trying to make a justifiable argument to his poor song writing with a band that hasn't produced anything anywhere near as good as it should be.

Firstly the original 4 what ever they wrote no matter how different every album was with out any doubt you knew it was the Stranglers there was absolutely no mistaking of that at all. I have to say though no matter how different they were that special ingredient what ever that is, that true Stranglers sound was always there. In contrast the song writing from the current line up is not only inferior it certainly does not sound anything like the Stranglers anymore the only thing that is recognisable is the name, logo and bass player and that's it. Well actually I'm not even sure i recognise JJ anymore.

Regarding Toby as a brilliant keyboardist........
I had a mate who was a guitarist and a brilliant one at that i used to sit in his room when we were 16 and he would play me Stranglers tracks on his Fender and i can tell you he used to amaze me . He didn't just resemble the Stranglers music when he played songs like Sleazy, Device ,D+N+B, Genetix, NMH and so many more he sounded exactly the same. I was amazed and found myself actually singing along to it as it was so easy to hear. Many years after that and in time what i have learnt about great musicians that can copy other peoples work is that they are 10 to a penny. I have known so many brilliant musicians as friends from work and social and there are so many musicians that are brilliant but what most of them all share and to my friends admittance as well they all cant write a original great classic song. A great song writer is so rare they come very far and few between and anything that you would want that may equal or better Hugh period of songs is never going to happen. If there was anything genius about Toby in song writing we would have heard about him already. Toby was right place at the right time with his YouTube examples that JJ could watch easily from at home and probably saved JJ having to audition lots of keyboardists so got the job. Obviously not without the added BS of he's so like Dave we tapped his chest as we thought he was in there blah blah blah BS

If the band came up trumps i will be really pleased to hear and admit i was wrong but its not going to happen because if it was going to it would have happened by now in that 30 odd years since Hugh has left.
I cant help thinking JJ is being distracted or held back by the rest of the band so a solo project for me would be a far better prospect but that's if JJ can write great tunes anymore i am not fully sure he can i am just hopeful to get one last great JJ solo album again.

Well I don't really understand what you mean cause I never suggested that JJs and / or other members current song writing is anywhere near as good as the original 4 used to be.

Nor that Toby is a brilliant keyboardist.
And yes I think I understand the difference between a good musician who can play well and copy stuff, and a creative force like the 4 original Stranglers all were.

My only point is that we don't really know anything about Toby's creative talents - if any - and we won't know until they make some new songs with him.

Sent from my moto g62 5G using Tapatalk

Aah ok that's my error then i was reading too much in to your post that wasn't there. It was probably my enthusiasm to point out that being a great musician or writing music that continues to be different is not the same thing to writing a good song .

Yes we will have to wait to see what Toby comes up with then lol poor fella he's only trying to help out with a tour and now i am expecting him to change the sound and quality of the Stranglers -- You better come up trumps Toby everyone is counting on you !!! lol

[Cricklewood]

I'm still keen for new Stranglers material and perhaps this new line up might help to make it refreshing as long as they're not obsessed with giving their classic material so many nods and and tributes. I think the challenge for Toby for example might be how much he'd be willing to forge his own thing or whether he'll pay alot of tribute to 'playing like' Dave. I prob would expect him to strike a balance but wouldn't mind if he decides to venture off into something that Dave wouldn't do. This also assumes how much creative freedom the band might allow him too.

[toilerinblack]

Yeah a tough one for a new member to come in and help out after the person before you was there for 47 odd years which the fans adored his playing stlye and right contributions to making their distinctive sound work so well since 1974.
So I wonder if he would change the style of play about to much with his own stamp on songs to differently,maybe as said before on here a compromise of your classic type Dave style of creativity but with some of his own ideas and work and to an extent Toby's at the keys currently and must have an input and ideas as well,I'm sure they all get a say so that's being a happy band and they sure all look very happy together nowday's.
What we don't know is how the band would want to move forwards music wise I think they would like to play safe with the usual sound fans like so much but also something fresh with a new approach.
Who knows only they know and we will too eventually,but for me I like hugh's approach of never standing still with different themes and sounds where he always sounds different and fresh and tbh the band too have certainly done that I feel with DM anyway.

[aldinblack]

I always enjoy your replies and often i can reflect and think again of what i said because of them and certainly your level headed defending of the band is always an enjoyable read and adds a different perspective on the discussion. This time however i think its a really poor point you make and one that sounds like its come straight from the lips of JJ trying to make a justifiable argument to his poor song writing with a band that hasn't produced anything anywhere near as good as it should be.

Firstly the original 4 what ever they wrote no matter how different every album was with out any doubt you knew it was the Stranglers there was absolutely no mistaking of that at all. I have to say though no matter how different they were that special ingredient what ever that is, that true Stranglers sound was always there. In contrast the song writing from the current line up is not only inferior it certainly does not sound anything like the Stranglers anymore the only thing that is recognisable is the name, logo and bass player and that's it. Well actually I'm not even sure i recognise JJ anymore.

Regarding Toby as a brilliant keyboardist........
I had a mate who was a guitarist and a brilliant one at that i used to sit in his room when we were 16 and he would play me Stranglers tracks on his Fender and i can tell you he used to amaze me . He didn't just resemble the Stranglers music when he played songs like Sleazy, Device ,D+N+B, Genetix, NMH and so many more he sounded exactly the same. I was amazed and found myself actually singing along to it as it was so easy to hear. Many years after that and in time what i have learnt about great musicians that can copy other peoples work is that they are 10 to a penny. I have known so many brilliant musicians as friends from work and social and there are so many musicians that are brilliant but what most of them all share and to my friends admittance as well they all cant write a original great classic song. A great song writer is so rare they come very far and few between and anything that you would want that may equal or better Hugh period of songs is never going to happen. If there was anything genius about Toby in song writing we would have heard about him already. Toby was right place at the right time with his YouTube examples that JJ could watch easily from at home and probably saved JJ having to audition lots of keyboardists so got the job. Obviously not without the added BS of he's so like Dave we tapped his chest as we thought he was in there blah blah blah BS

If the band came up trumps i will be really pleased to hear and admit i was wrong but its not going to happen because if it was going to it would have happened by now in that 30 odd years since Hugh has left.
I cant help thinking JJ is being distracted or held back by the rest of the band so a solo project for me would be a far better prospect but that's if JJ can write great tunes anymore i am not fully sure he can i am just hopeful to get one last great JJ solo album again.

Well I don't really understand what you mean cause I never suggested that JJs and / or other members current song writing is anywhere near as good as the original 4 used to be.

Nor that Toby is a brilliant keyboardist.
And yes I think I understand the difference between a good musician who can play well and copy stuff, and a creative force like the 4 original Stranglers all were.

My only point is that we don't really know anything about Toby's creative talents - if any - and we won't know until they make some new songs with him.

Sent from my moto g62 5G using Tapatalk

Aah ok that's my error then i was reading too much in to your post that wasn't there. It was probably my enthusiasm to point out that being a great musician or writing music that continues to be different is not the same thing to writing a good song .

Yes we will have to wait to see what Toby comes up with then lol poor fella he's only trying to help out with a tour and now i am expecting him to change the sound and quality of the Stranglers -- You better come up trumps Toby everyone is counting on you !!! lol

haha yeah the pressure is on come on Toby stop fucking around copying Dave and let's see what you've got lol !

I suppose any mention of a possible new album gives some hope that we'll at least hear something "fresh", but I'd like to think that my expectations are realistic and it's just stating the obvious again to say the best has long passed...

Sent from my moto g62 5G using Tapatalk