Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

JJ Burnel, ...., Baz Warne, Jim Macaulay.

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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by villainblack »

Still sounds good to me

Roll on Birmingham, hope White Stallion on set list
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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Bear Cage wrote: 24 Jan 2022, 21:25
jason wrote: 24 Jan 2022, 20:06 If they'd given up after Dreamtime I would never had seen them! :shock:
There has been so much great stuff, both live and on record, since Dreamtime, it’d have been a tragedy if they’d stopped, the occasional lows are more than compensated for by the exceptional brilliance of the highs, which include Dark Matters.
Yep i agree it would of been a tragedy too as post Dreamtime has seen so many new fans freshly finding and following this band along too with so many new albums,gigs and conventions the list goes on.I can understand that some may feel that was this bands last high point material wise with MK1 which in a way it was with Dreamtime it was one special album for sure with Hugh but just me as one fan i wouldn't of wanted them to have stopped then or even now in a way,yes it's not the same band it will never be but it's still the Stranglers who are still rolling on to live another day.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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I'm not sure it would have been a "tragedy" (dramatic choice of word for a band splitting up) as every single piece of essential work put out under The Stranglers' name had been put out by then. Their work from Stranglers in the Night is only considered to be "exceptional brilliance" by a small hardcore of fans - for the majority of people the material 1977-1987 is where the real meat is, and it's that material which 99.9% of the time serves as people's entry point into the band. In reality, the post-Hugh material is at best merely okay/serviceable (Norfolk Coast and Suite XVI) and at worst shocking (Coup de Grace) ... in hindsight, none of it has really added to The Stranglers' recorded legacy. They're records to pacify the hardcore.

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that continuing post-Hugh has been to their detriment in the big scheme of things. If they really HAD split up post-Dreamtime or even 10, they'd be more fondly remembered now.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by Bear Cage »

You can wallow in your nostalgia for what you think was (and dream you’d actually experienced) whilst throwing out brickbats at what followed. The rest of us will continue to enjoy what is, what was and what is to come.
Thankfully The Stranglers continue, have a large following, both live and on records (as the success of Dark Matters demonstrates) and keep adding quality to their canon. It’s not going to last forever, but long may it continue.
Last edited by Bear Cage on 25 Jan 2022, 19:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by theraven1979 »

Can only agree. Even JJ would rather the 90s never happened.

Jim
StanInBlack wrote: 25 Jan 2022, 08:20 I'm not sure it would have been a "tragedy" (dramatic choice of word for a band splitting up) as every single piece of essential work put out under The Stranglers' name had been put out by then. Their work from Stranglers in the Night is only considered to be "exceptional brilliance" by a small hardcore of fans - for the majority of people the material 1977-1987 is where the real meat is, and it's that material which 99.9% of the time serves as people's entry point into the band. In reality, the post-Hugh material is at best merely okay/serviceable (Norfolk Coast and Suite XVI) and at worst shocking (Coup de Grace) ... in hindsight, none of it has really added to The Stranglers' recorded legacy. They're records to pacify the hardcore.

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that continuing post-Hugh has been to their detriment in the big scheme of things. If they really HAD split up post-Dreamtime or even 10, they'd be more fondly remembered now.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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theraven1979 wrote: 25 Jan 2022, 09:23 Can only agree. Even JJ would rather the 90s never happened.

Jim
StanInBlack wrote: 25 Jan 2022, 08:20 I'm not sure it would have been a "tragedy" (dramatic choice of word for a band splitting up) as every single piece of essential work put out under The Stranglers' name had been put out by then. Their work from Stranglers in the Night is only considered to be "exceptional brilliance" by a small hardcore of fans - for the majority of people the material 1977-1987 is where the real meat is, and it's that material which 99.9% of the time serves as people's entry point into the band. In reality, the post-Hugh material is at best merely okay/serviceable (Norfolk Coast and Suite XVI) and at worst shocking (Coup de Grace) ... in hindsight, none of it has really added to The Stranglers' recorded legacy. They're records to pacify the hardcore.

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that continuing post-Hugh has been to their detriment in the big scheme of things. If they really HAD split up post-Dreamtime or even 10, they'd be more fondly remembered now.
And what should have been the consequences? Stop following the band after Hugh's quit or only talking about the Hugh period? Is it for sure that The Stranglers with Hugh would still produce music in the same quality of the golden area 1977 til mid the 80s? Or is the album 10 as good as e.g. Rattus, Black&White, Raven, La Folie? Pointless discussion. It is how it is. That's life.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by theraven1979 »

Everyone has a choice. Do what feels right. Some of the best live gigs I've witnessed were from the early 90s MKII Stranglers.

Jim
Lafleur wrote: 25 Jan 2022, 10:05
theraven1979 wrote: 25 Jan 2022, 09:23 Can only agree. Even JJ would rather the 90s never happened.

Jim
StanInBlack wrote: 25 Jan 2022, 08:20 I'm not sure it would have been a "tragedy" (dramatic choice of word for a band splitting up) as every single piece of essential work put out under The Stranglers' name had been put out by then. Their work from Stranglers in the Night is only considered to be "exceptional brilliance" by a small hardcore of fans - for the majority of people the material 1977-1987 is where the real meat is, and it's that material which 99.9% of the time serves as people's entry point into the band. In reality, the post-Hugh material is at best merely okay/serviceable (Norfolk Coast and Suite XVI) and at worst shocking (Coup de Grace) ... in hindsight, none of it has really added to The Stranglers' recorded legacy. They're records to pacify the hardcore.

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that continuing post-Hugh has been to their detriment in the big scheme of things. If they really HAD split up post-Dreamtime or even 10, they'd be more fondly remembered now.
And what should have been the consequences? Stop following the band after Hugh's quit or only talking about the Hugh period? Is it for sure that The Stranglers with Hugh would still produce music in the same quality of the golden area 1977 til mid the 80s? Or is the album 10 as good as e.g. Rattus, Black&White, Raven, La Folie? Pointless discussion. It is how it is. That's life.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by Greatkudu »

Well I played it last night and enjoyed it, so there you go. Lt Kudu. :smt005
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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theraven1979 wrote: 25 Jan 2022, 10:09 Everyone has a choice. Do what feels right. Some of the best live gigs I've witnessed were from the early 90s MKII Stranglers.

Jim
theraven1979 wrote: 25 Jan 2022, 09:23 Can only agree. Even JJ would rather the 90s never happened.

Jim

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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by toilerinblack »

Total crap being spoken about the stranglers here post Dreamtime and shouldn't of carried on,each to their own but certain views is not from the majority of fans out there, it's total rubbish sorry just how i see it but it's a forum and each to their own.
The Stranglers are still selling out gigs over 30 odd years on from Dreamtime and MK1 who are still releasing very good material why shouldn't they carry on? why should they have stopped in the mid eighties? i don't get it at all.Every fan can have there favourite times and albums with certain members along the way that's obvious,understandable and reasonable for a band whose been going 48 years and even now in 2022 there's new fans joining all the time and within familes who are the original fans with now their children getting into this band who are enjoying this band and what they are doing why should they stop?
Last edited by toilerinblack on 25 Jan 2022, 20:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

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toilerinblack wrote: 25 Jan 2022, 20:13 Total crap being spoken about the stranglers here post Dreamtime and shouldn't of carried on,each to their own but certain views is not from the majority of fans out there, it's total rubbish sorry just how i see it but it's a forum and each to their own.
The Stranglers are still selling out gigs over 30 odd years on from Dreamtime and MK1 who are still releasing very good material why shouldn't they carry on? why should they have stopped in the mid eighties? i don't get it at all.Every fan can have there favourite times and albums with certain members along the way there's new fans joining all the time who still enjoy this band and what they are doing why should they stop?
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Re: Dark Matters - Second Thoughts

Post by toilerinblack »

Anyway each to their own it's an open forum which is good for people to express their views and i respect that and it's only my opinion and lets hope the UK tour does get off to a blinding start, i do though agree probably with the many too that the eighties was this band peaking at their best with albums never to be repeated again i agree with all that has been said there i think that is right in my opinion too.
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