The Nazi joke club - 47 Million Europeans cant be wrong

Alan A Hillier · Post by **Alan A Hillier** » 13 Jan 2005, 22:22

Picking up on your general comments about the lyrics in Ugly I am drawn to a story that appeared today about 'Bungling Bungalow Boy' Prince Harry who seems to be up to his old antics again.

Don't take all this too seriously folks...........But..................

Does dressing up in the desert uniform of Rommel's Afrika Korps to go to a party (Was that a Nazi party?) make him a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer as some have suggested? Or is he just a typical Royal knob head without a brain...... Or was he merely exercising his newly discovered Princely comedy rights? Gooning about in his uniform, and does Dad have one as well?

This really does have to be one of the most explicit demonstrations of the instant effects of the imagery of the Swastika and is an opportunity to add to what has already been discussed with regard to some of the lyrics in Ugly (I'll post my personal opinions in that thread later).

Now I haven't got too much time to worry about Prince Harry or any of their prillivedged Highnesses (although I haven't got too much against them either) who, if they were an ordinary 'dysfunctional' family on a South London sink estate would probably have seen Harry and William taken in to care by the social services years ago. Underage drinking, smoking, shagging and God knows what else would have seen young Harry in some serious shit if he had been living in the real world. The dear old Queen Mum would have been parked up in a borough nursing home covered in gravy and smelling of piss by the time she was 75. The whole lot of them are divorced, gay or mad and have been shagging mistresses and lovers (and fuck knows who else) since the year dot.

But............If this incident with Harry would have come to court (As it might have done if a 20 year old Gooner scally covered in tattoos would have worn that uniform in the West Stand at Tottenham Hotspurs) and if I would have been asked to defend the young Princling as his official advocate, I would have been saying something like this (with tongue very firmly in cheek)..................

Ask yourself ...........is it remotely likely that Harry is a Nazi (Bearing in mind that if Hitler and his boys would have successfully invaded Britain in 1940, Prince Harry would almost certainly never have existed as the whole of the royal family at that time would probably have been done away with). Of course he bloody isn't.

So what's it all about then? What is it really all about, using the imagery of a deadly and determined and historical enemy of his country and his family, especially at a time where the memories of those of a certain age are still as vivid and terrifying as they ever have been, when the anniversary of an atrocity so appalling perpetrated on a single religious group is imminent, yet all of that still did not deter him from making a 'comedy' statement in an Afrika Corps uniform, and don't get this wrong, wearing that uniform was a statement of some kind, he's just not stupid enough for it not to have been.

So....... Was he saying, "Look everyone I’ve decided to 'out' myself as I have been a closet Nazi for years and I thought today was the day that I'd sling on my old Nazi uniform, the one I only normally wear in the privacy of the palace then go out to a high profile party and allow myself to get photographed by a tabloid newspaper to break the story"

Or........Did he feel totally entitled to wear that uniform as a legitimate 'joke' because of an emerging subconscious understanding that because the uniform is a powerful symbol of a group of people that tried to invade, then systematically destroy his country and it's people (and if they would have got the chance, would have most certainly have destroyed his whole family) that he is totally at liberty to share with us the modernist comedy irony of Nazi symbolism because he is most certainly is a fully paid up member of the

'Nazi Joke club'.

Was he showing solidarity with other members by demonstrating that he has found the confidence to reveal that he belongs to this small but prestigious 'club', which will, henceforth, allow him to pull Peter Sellers (A comedy actor who would regularly don a German Helmet and Full length Nazi leather coat, most famously on Parkinson and in a stereotypical German accent buffoon about the place) style gags and dress up as a kraut, an area of comedy which had long been accepted as the sole prerogative and hallowed comic turf which only Jewish comedians could truly dare to tread upon and get away with without fear of the slightest consternation when dealing with all things about Nazi Germany

Or maybe he now understands the nature of his impunity in the same way that performers like Mel Brooks have done, poking fun at and dealing with a very serious subject yet still being allowed by virtue of a related status, to turn the antics of the enemies of himself and his people in to a comedic art form whilst relying exclusively in some instances on the military paraphernalia which is so detested and creates so much outrage amongst his community. A contraditction? Well Not at all. I got the joke Mel son

If Prince Harry really does now see things in this way then I think he's probably got a point, after all, the Nazi led Germans killed millions of his Grandfathers subjects of all colours and faiths all over the world in two world wars and on that basis there is no contradiction whatsoever.

Obviously this type of joke still noticeably walks a very fine tightrope when it is even slightly taken out of context or even mildly misunderstood, so on that level alone poor old half-wit Harry should not expect to get any sympathy or understanding whatsoever.

But why wasn't young Harry's joke understood?

After all when is a joke not a joke and when can detrimentally thought-provoking visual insincerity ever be understood or disentangled from facts and historic reality especially when it's effect remains so painfully obvious and can still so successfully and instantaneously offend. It seems that most of us are still a long way from incorporating paradox into the use of imagery although the British have managed it with their topical jokes, however immediate or unsavory they are, 'Give us a wave'?

So....... taking the piss out of an accepted historical adversary or enemy of you or your 'people' (In this case the Old Nazis) and using their own dramatic imagery like S.S or Nazi uniforms, jack boots or swastikas and turning the impact of these symbols upside down, in to a high kicking all singing and dancing joke designed to throw it all that back at the memory of the perpetrators in an effort to belittle them is a legitimate attempt at intellectual reverse humor and when it appears in film, music or on stage, it is a completely acceptable and legitimate form of cathartic redress as long as it has been written by the right people.

It's absolutely impossible for me to imagine any of my Jewish mates debasing the honored memory of all those who lost their lives at the hands of the worst of these monsters by referring to each other as Nazis.

"Hey Nazi how you doing man" It's just not conceivable whatever levels of intellectual humour emerge over the years and it could never be remotely funny or qualify in this context.
On the other hand, where I live in North West London black guys (and now younger black children) regularly and comfortably call other black guys and other black children 'nigger' openly and with arrogant and blissful impunity, flying totally in the face of everyone who has tried so fucking hard to do away with these dreadfully distasteful and generally useless racist sobriquets.
Apparently the word nigger now means 'friend' but only if you are black. A more tragic insincerity I think I have yet to hear, but once again, used openly and paradoxically as a mildly amusing reference to the most hated word in their dictionary and in defiance of the impact that it has on those who might have used it against them in the past, indeed, if a white person was to call a black person a nigger these days the law is now, quite rightly, suitably equipped to deliver a very serious charge which I'm glad to say, is now always vigorously prosecuted by the police. But can anyone see the joke, no? Well I'm not laughing any more either.

I'm not comparing those two references at all but I think they demonstrate quite nicely that there is an opportunity at any time to delve into self centered 'reverse humour' should we perceive ourselves as permanent victims and choose to continue to do so. I also think we are entirely entitled to do that..........But does that opportunity extend to young Harry and the comedy use of his Nazi uniform and if not, why not, after all .......his people were victims en masse.

So where do we go from here, Black folks, Jews and now Royals, totally within their rights in my opinion to use Nazi paraphernalia, symbolism or the worst and most hated of the racial expletives to make intellectual Anti Nazi statements and stand Racist and Nazi imagery on it's head

USING NAZI SYMBOLISM IS NOW LEGITIMATEY ANTI NAZI,

Brown is the new black, fur is the new fur, after all, any self respecting Nazi going to all the trouble of dressing up like one in public is going to come right out and admit it......... Right???????????

But of course we all know all the real Nazis are the ones you never see or hear from, wouldn't dream of talking, writing or discussing the subject and certainly would never been seen dead in an S.S Storm troopers outfit at the Houses of Parliament or shopping at Brent Cross..........stands to reason dunnit.

So what about the rest of us then, you and me and what about old John Jacques Burnel or any other artist or performer for that matter who sees the glorious sarcasm in highlighting the dreadful traits in all of us by an artistic use of reverse humour

Could I or you or JJ Burnel ever get to have our very own Mel Brooks moment and legitimately dress up to mock the people who tried to destroy our countries and our ancestors in this new comedic anti Nazi styleeee?..........I fucking hope so

I want to harass those ancient Nazis who are still living in Argentina or Brazil who succeeded in blowing various members of my family to smithereens in the London Blitz or slaughtered them as young men with machine gun fire on July 1st 1916 (but we know there were no Nazis in 1916) by wearing a Swastika at the next Spurs home game, should I be permitted to don the Nazi imagery in Mel Brook's 'Springtime for Hitler' and share with you my dazzling desire to laugh at the prehistoric enemies of my people by Goose-stepping up White Hart Lane, should I be allowed to wear a German Helmet and a full length German leather coat and 'diss up' the Nazis in the words of a poem or a song whenever the feeling takes me ,

Of course I fucking should, whats good for the goose dude has just got to be good for the gander me old fruit. and so be it.

Just to remind you

The fields of France and Belgium are littered with the bodies of young Hilliers, who were murdered by Nazi led Germans in two world wars (Do I have to keep reminding you that I know there were no Nazis in WW1), and there is not a family that has lived in this country (wherever they came from originally) over the last dreadful, bloody hundred years that were not at one time or another left without a Dad, brother, sister or a mother.

The tragedy of the holocaust defies comparisons in the manner in which those poor people were hounded, humiliated and eventually destroyed simply because they were of a certain faith or a certain ethnic origin and every time I think about it simply seems ever more unbelievable.

The bombing of major cities in WW2 was indiscriminate and took over 60,000 civilian lives in UK, Jean Jacques fathers France lost over 360,000 civilian dead and a rough estimate puts the civilian Russian dead at the hands of these Nazis at close to 8 Million . I could go on, but suffice to say that including all European casualties (Excluding the German civilian dead estimated at nearly 4 million) the total number of civilian casualties amounted to nearly 27 fucking million innocent people add to that 20 million military casualties and you get the fucking picture.....................................

Funny?????????????? Not at all...................unless you feel the need to laugh out loud.

The carnage on the battlefields of WW1 And WW2 destroyed the flower of two generations from all over the world (including the Germans) .

Indian regiments, West Indian Regiments, Polish, Australian, New Zealand (Where's Old Zealand by the way?) Canadians and so on and so forth.

Millions of men women and children were destroyed fighting against Nazi Germany and I want to stipulate 'NAZI GERMANY' because the vast majority of ordinary Germans were not 'Nazis' in any shape or form, they were simply doing what we were doing and fighting for their country ...and I will always admire that.

Jewish people have every right to vent their anger at the Nazis by using the very paraphernalia that symbolises the hideous destruction of so many who shared their faith should they wish to do so and if they feel like they are entitled to make that relationship with a dreadful and unforgivable enemy in a particular moment in history occasionally funny, then they have my support to do that as well, if they feel at ease with that almost schizophrenic relationship then I fully understand that and would never question the reasoning behind their need to do it, after all, the Jewish sense of humour is a wonderful blend of observation,reality and irony.

Let us all remember in this 60th anniversary year that the Jews suffered a great deal at the hands of Nazi Germany and we are all very, very aware of that but let us also remember that 47 million plus non-Jews also lost their lives in that conflict from England, France, Holland Belgium, Russia and all the rest of them

I rest my case

Al

Paul Mason · Post by **Paul Mason** » 13 Jan 2005, 22:24

Its bollocks

Alenyx · Post by **Alenyx** » 13 Jan 2005, 22:41

It's all about provocation... and the sad thing is you still can provoke with these symbols...
I's more or less accepted if it's done properly during some comedy tv show.. and perhaps some people even dare to laugh about it... but it's absolutely unappropriate during a public event like the mentioned one...

if people take these matters too serious other people like Hitler will come, because they want to be taken serious...

Of course it's no laughing matter in general, but some irony is always healthy... trying to see things with some distance...

Alenyx · Post by **Alenyx** » 13 Jan 2005, 22:42

Respect to your essays Al... always very interesting to read!

Paul Mason · Post by **Paul Mason** » 13 Jan 2005, 22:44

Is The Producers upsetting anybody in Londons WestEnd?

A film directed and produced by someone who is Jewish i.e. Mel Brooks and contains lots of Nazi Uniforms..

No because it is bollocks....

Alex · Post by **Alex** » 13 Jan 2005, 22:53

Don't Bring Harry! :D

I gotta split a very big hair ere.

Harry did not have a Nazi Swastika emblazoned on his arm.

The "Swastika" originated in Tibet, it is a symbol of peace, love and "one-ness" with our Earth, it can be seen in many Tibetan scriptures, sculptures and Temples.
I think it is meant to depict the wheel of life or summink. As you all know, it has two lines in the centre that form a cross or the spokes of the wheel, if you like. At the end of each line there is a line set at 90 degrees (why ain't there a "degrees" button on keyboards!).... anyways, on the Tibetan swastika the lines at the end of the four "spokes" point towards the right.

The Nazis adopted the Swastika as their own, I think they liked the wheel of life stuff, it suited their twisted idealistic view of the Earth.
The thing is, they made a change to it,....... they reversed it.The lines at the end of the "spokes" on a Nazi Swastika point left.
They also added a white circle, depicting purity, on a background of red, symbolising blood.

Harry's Swastika points to the right.

Alenyx · Post by **Alenyx** » 13 Jan 2005, 22:54

Brook's sense of humour is brilliant... more people should be able to laugh about themselves and this world would be a much more peaceful place...

Radar · Post by **Radar** » 13 Jan 2005, 23:46

Paul Mason wrote:Its bollocks

Shut up you fucking wanker

Your a new boy.........read and learn...and keep you fucking mouth shut untill you have something interesting to say....we have done all the "I'll be fucking contraversial by swearing or being a cunt"

sooooooooo Oy Cunt.............behave

:pissedagain:

Website · Post by **evonx** » 13 Jan 2005, 23:50

Where's Old Zealand by the way?)

Great stuff again Al!
Thanks.

Old Zealand is a Dutch county in the South West of the Netherlans on the Belgium border.

:)

Post by **Dom P** » 14 Jan 2005, 00:26

Took some reading Al, but I think the issue is that I doubt very strongly whether Harry approached his fancy dress costume with anything close to the level of ironic comedy intelligence you rightly defend!

He, and his advisers, should have fucking known better. It was a stupid thing to do, even if purely for the totally predictable furore it has created. It has not contributed to, or opened up, any useful or new lines of debate or insight into the human condition. It was a stupid idea from a stupid family for the benefit of a bunch of stupid cunts! :p

Alenyx · Post by **Alenyx** » 14 Jan 2005, 00:52

...at least it did create some very interesting discussions on here

jeanjacketburnel · Post by **jeanjacketburnel** » 14 Jan 2005, 14:26

Alex wrote:Don't Bring Harry! :D

I gotta split a very big hair ere.

Harry did not have a Nazi Swastika emblazoned on his arm.

The "Swastika" originated in Tibet, it is a symbol of peace, love and "one-ness" with our Earth, it can be seen in many Tibetan scriptures, sculptures and Temples.
I think it is meant to depict the wheel of life or summink. As you all know, it has two lines in the centre that form a cross or the spokes of the wheel, if you like. At the end of each line there is a line set at 90 degrees (why ain't there a "degrees" button on keyboards!).... anyways, on the Tibetan swastika the lines at the end of the four "spokes" point towards the right.

The Nazis adopted the Swastika as their own, I think they liked the wheel of life stuff, it suited their twisted idealistic view of the Earth.
The thing is, they made a change to it,....... they reversed it.The lines at the end of the "spokes" on a Nazi Swastika point left.
They also added a white circle, depicting purity, on a background of red, symbolising blood.

Harry's Swastika points to the right.

So he's really a good guy then?
According to "Central news" just now, he rented it from a party shop in Nailsworth who proberly don't look into how accurate their nazi party costumes actually are.It was good enought for Wills.