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HARRY
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Post by HARRY »

Eddy Burnel deux wrote: Coast to Coast could have been a monster hit this year
Bloody hell eddy...!!!

I love when you talk french !!!!

Ce groupe vient effectivement de se couper les couilles.
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daniellameijvis
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Post by daniellameijvis »

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I haven't bothered reading all of the above responses but I find it disappointing that the links are going. From my perspective the freebies linked through here have really rekindled my interest in whats going on.

I feel people buy bootlegs or download them because they want PRODUCT. If the band want to get paid for this stuff then fucking release it for fucks sake! How many of us would go out and buy a DVD release of the Battersea gig? Loads. Instead we get served up shit San Francisco bollocks. What do they expect us to do? Be grateful? I'd love to know what an average Joe Punter thinks of that release. Waste of money and a complete rip off!

I have alway thought that if there is one thing lacking from the band, apart from the studio albums, it is other decent product to keep the fans interest going.

The official web site was mentioned the other day. How many of us look at that before coming on here? I always go here first and someitimes find it is days before I look at Rats Lair.

If this all so sensitive pehaps the band could make the recordings of gigs available at a reasonable price through Rats Lair?

We are now in the digital age. This makes recording and reproducing gigs etc very easy. I suggest that the band stop having a luddite point of view and wake up and smell the coffee.

This site proves there is a demand from these "bootleg" recordings. If the band stopped being so precious they could keep a lot of people very happy.

I agree with you Cola
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paulinblack
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Post by paulinblack »

Amazing that everyone has assumed that it is the Stranglers camp that have got the hump - Could be Hugh's folk. Either way, I don't care.
(Edit: Ahh, just seen the other thread now...Oops !)

I've not bought Coast To Coast yet because I'm not too keen on live stuff that is the same as recorded stuff. To me, its just an inferior product. I've downloaded stuff from the site just to see what its like, but normally play it once and then delete or forget about it.

I am going to buy PPP basically because of the fact that there are reworkings of songs that I have on studio albums. I've downloaded lots of Hugh live stuff as you never know whats going to be done differently. The stuff I am most looking forward to on PPP are Sewer, Wog, LIBI & DLA. I have several 'bootleg' copies of each track. HOWEVER, I don't have them in anything like the quality of an official release. I am therefore happy to purchase this 'inferior product'.

My interest in the Stranglers and Hugh has been on the wane (as I have posted before). Seeing reviews of SBE and other gigs initially left me feeling envious that I couldn't be there. That envy diminished with time until my interested was raised again by being able to get hold of 'bootlegs'. Having one listen to each mp3 helped me stay in touch and let me better understand people's reviews. Without this I think that my interest will probably dwindle. Although, I must say that I had stopped downloading most stuff until the recent hidden stuff.

I understand the stance that has been taken. I understand the argument about 'plumbers'. I understand the lust for more recordings. But I'm sad that I won't be able to keep up with whats going on with Mr C gigs.

Paul ' The End Is Nigh'
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theraven1979
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Re: Blunted by Community...

Post by theraven1979 »

Nope I *might* still do the DVD thing (providing the band don`t release something identical) might send a copy to the merchandise team and say "flog stuff like this please"




Jim
marcoshark wrote:Do what I did and buy a multi-region player. Best money I ever spent imho.

shah wrote:Yeah...whatever he said about his pussy.

Sadly, I will probably not get the SBE DVD as I am in a different DVD zone and I doubt it will be universal.

So I get all the scraps I can....
Okay, so I can understand Jimbo having to make changes. BUT, one group of musicans that you should also look at for a business model is (oy, I am going to get it now from you lot) The greatful Dead. Yeah, those guys. As i understand it, they have always had specific areas set up in their concerts for fan recordings. In fact, some of these have made it to regular release (I think they are called "Dick's Pick's") You do not hear about the remaining band members crying about lost revenues. It seems that The Dead and their fans have a way for both parties to be pleased.

I appreciated what you lot (Dom and Co) have made available because fu*k knows when I can make the trip over the big pond. Then there is the whole thing about when Hugh or The Stranglers are coming back this way (and consider I am now in Florida makes those chances even less) Will I purchase CtC? Hell yeah, unless the mechandising people screw up my order(s) like the last time.

So Jim, I take it then that the DVD project is now sacked as well?

:evil:
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theraven1979
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Post by theraven1979 »

This is true - it will go underground again and you`ll probably find people churning crap out all over ebay again when you coulda downloaded it through a link on this site for free. I think the whole thing has been handled pretty badly to be honest but the band had no other option that to approach the SBE issue - I can understand that.

The band seem a little distant from the fans at the moment and I honestly don`t think anyone directly connected to the band reads this site which is a shame as I think that this is where most of the fans activity/opinions are voiced. Hugh and his manager are certainly aware of this site to their credit.

Where do we go from here? If anything I hope the management or the band now realise that the fans want live recordings. I appreciate the problems in releasing stuff like that officially but why don`t they have some kind of subscription thing where everyone put`s in £20 a year or something and there`s around 50 live gigs on there for download?

Let`s not forget there`s P2P, Emule, Dimeadozen, etc so this won`t stop.

Jim



Toiler On The Sea wrote:All this does is drive it 'underground' again.

I've always been of the opinion, that, if it is on general release and easily obtainable through legit means, then 'Bootlegging' is wrong.

However, if something is 'deleted' and unavailable, then it's fair game.
I'm not denying payment to the artist, as they obviously don't want it, or it would be on release.

What next, artists wanting paid for people selling on 2nd hand 45s'/Lps'/CDs'.

Will it deminish my interest in things MIB?
Maybe a tad :cry:
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theraven1979
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Post by theraven1979 »

Was gonna ask you a question but you answered it in your last sentance. You ever thought about something similar? I guess Cap wouldn`t mind? There always seems to be a bloke with video camera at every Damned gig. I`m after a gig of theirs from Bradford Rio's about 5 years back when I get namechecked.

Jim
markorbit wrote:End of the day it should be The Stranglers (& management) decision and we have to respect that. I'm not totally au fait with the extent of what was available but I thought it was rare demos, live MP3s, radio sessions, odd video footage - but nothing on commercial release.

Does it harm the band? That's very hard to quantify - but you can be sure that there will always be somebody out to make a quick buck and it is probably those people that have prompted the band to take action.

At the JJ event in Leeds my mate asked him about his thoughts on MP3 downloads and the response was (along the lines of) - live stuff he doesn't mind but something that has been worked on is a finished, polished body of work and that is different.

To be honest I think that upload/download area was just TOO GOOD!! Perhaps if it had not been so damn extensive things would've plodded on. Couple that with the recent ebay sellers and it gets iffy.

What is a shame though is due to all the licensing costs to make all those clips commercially available they would never see the light of day officially.

Oh well. I can't whinge as I don't encourage it on The Damned message board either!
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theraven1979
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Post by theraven1979 »

2 things spring to mind.

1. Hammersmith 81 (or was it 82) had that on tape for fucking years. Soon as it was released I was handing over me hard earned.

2. Glasgow Apollo - ditto above.


Jim
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adriana
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Post by adriana »

I agree that perhaps the recent downloads of gigs from current tours may have been the straw that broke the camel's back....

but then on the other hand, I think that there is a very big lesson to be learned by both camps (and here I mean fans using this kind of forum and the management camps of both Hugh and the Stranglers). We are now very much in the digital age and this seems to be proving to be something of a double edged sword.

If you take for example in Hugh's case the Cafe de Paris gig and in the Stranglers case the Paris gig, these shows were performed for promotional purposes... it's what artists do have have always done. The difference now compared with 1980 is that Radio Stations are also in the promotional game and all are in digital competion (there's a lot of them out there after all). Most radio stations that have the pull to host such a show will have listen again features and this was highlighted on the band's and Hugh's site at the time of broadcast. Now I don't think that you need to be in IT these days to figure out how get such a broadcast onto CD - PC's are now completely geared up to everything multimedia and even my 70 year old father can do it for fuck's sake. Therefore, that high quality recordings of these recent shows are freely available should at this stage come as no surprise. Technology has moved on and it has changed the music industry. Will it impact on record sales, maybe in Hugh's case (unlikely in Coast to Coasts case).

If the Beatles had done their famous 1967 broadcast to 350 million in 2006 would it have affected sales of All You Need is Love... of course it would and that is now the position that we are in.

Someone earlier said that much of the interest in the download section was for Mk I stuff. In my case that is true and some of the best stuff that I aqcuired was from 89/90. Now I had most of this but not versions where some one had taken the care and time to clean them up (many thanks!). That material doesn't officially exist, but I was there and I wanted it - warts and all.

There are huge gaps in the live Mk I live career that if available, could only serve to increase/maintain interest in the activities of these punk warhorses.

I can't claim to know what has been said by sources close to these artists regarding download sites but I do feel that the wrong sites and individuals may have been targeted. From the forums, it is highly apparent that those folk who have had a hand in making live recordings available have impeccable fan credentials and much effort has been made on Jim's and others part to police these sections and to ensure that commercially available material has not been a feature.

The whole thing leaves me saddened and I would ask the band (and any band with similar concerns over this issue) to consider the changes in technology over the past 10 years and perhaps take steps to get with it and make more material available from tours at affordable prices for fans consumption. That is the way to beat bootleggers (ie those who seek to profit from such activity).
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theraven1979
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Post by theraven1979 »

You can`t beat an official live recording next to a "bootleg" though. The official recording is part of the back catalogue (so you have to buy it straight away to complete your collection). The official release will (usually) have some nice artwork, nice CD cover, it just feels better. Whereas usually the "bootleg" recording just feels (and sounds) shite in comparison.

I believe the band have 2 problems in releasing demo/live material. I reckon that certain members of the band are perfectionists (nothing wrong with that) and because of that they`d never want a set of demos or live recordings to be released. I reckon also that any MKI goodies won`t be released as they`d have to approach Hugh/management ? And why promote a MKI recording when MKIII is still happening. Perhaps when the band call it a day the floodgates for this sort of stuff may open?


Jim
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adriana
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Post by adriana »

On eBay.

People on these forums have long been frustrated at those who have taken advantage and gone on to sell on eBay. The upshot is that these people who have made a great deal of money over the months have effectively ruined it for all. Whilst the download sections are down and will probably continue to be so, sales on ebay will no doubt continue and so perhaps it is time to take a harder line with those selling this very same material on eBay.

Ebay have a no CD-R/DVD-R policy, end of story. If it is brought to ebay's attention that a recording is unoffical and contravenes site policy then the item will be removed. Ebay do not quibble in these matters, they have too many auctions ongoing to investigate individual complaints.

I think that this is something that close contacts to the band should be doing, but only a few individuals are involved and it may go some way in demonstrating to the band and management that we are prepared to hinder the profiteers. Just an idea.
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Post by adriana »

theraven1979 wrote: I reckon that certain members of the band are perfectionists (nothing wrong with that) and because of that they`d never want a set of demos or live recordings to be released.

Jim
Jim,

Demos? perhaps, since these represent works in progress (that said the anally retentive fans like to see how a given song evolves - look at the commercial success of the Beatles Anthology collections as a case in point). Live recordings on the other hand are different. They represent the finished versions of songs. I was always irked that the studio version of ADAAOTN was tacked onto the All Live album instead of the version that was played at Reading. I know that this was the first time thay had played it live, but at the time it was considered to be good enough for a paying audience. And besides bands hit the odd bum notes, PAs can cause problems etc etc, it's all part of band life and who would have it any other way.

Fragmented live albums annoy me and in nearly every case on official live albums the band have taken this approach. So what you get is a collection of live tracks rather than a gig.

That a good quality recording of the 1990 tour wasn't released was a great missed opportunity.

Perhaps in the future, fan based forums like BUT could work in conjunction with the band/hugh to produce limited runs of good quality 'official bootlegs'.
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steveareno
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Post by steveareno »

This isn't going to stop the recording of the band's gigs or the distriution of demo tapes, etc. . We've been doing it for over 25 years already so this action won't stop it, it will just revert to tapes/CD's exchanged through the post between certain fans - the same fans who have bank rolled the band all their teenage & adult life.
There will always be a market because the band & their record label have consistently failed to get their act together & satisfy what the fans desire. What harm will a post of, say Orebro 1978 have on band sales ? The band's label/management will never have the foresight to release this officially. There's probably a hornet's nest of legalities awaiting them if they even tried, hence why deny fans the opportunity of listening to this gig & sharing it with other die-hard fans ? Who loses out ? It can surley only keep fans on board who are starting to get disenfranchised with the band due to dull & imaginative set lists @ gigs these days.

I see some semblance of argument from the management about the Shephard's Bush gig, as it was to be released officially. Why doesn't Sil then get himself in gear & join us (as he can't beat us) & offer the download facility on a revamped official web-site. Then if we do want copies of Orebro '78 or the Nob gig from '75 (it's good quality by the way !), then Joe Strangler can pay the band for the privelidge a la Napster, etc. .
This would earn the band revenue, pay for someone to manage the site, satisfy fans & attract attention from passing & lost fans.
To publicly attack fans such as Dom P who are responsible for the fabulous 'Burning Up Time' pdf (which was done for no financial gain, just love of the band & their music !!) just makes my blood boil.

grrrrrr !!!

Steveareno.
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